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Combatting military suicides: Limit access to private weapons?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by dmancornell, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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  2. iusmc2002

    iusmc2002 Colville, WA Active Member

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    Welcome to the increasingly influential Nanny State. "We're from the government, and we're here to help".....
     
  3. Atroxus

    Atroxus Marysville, WA Member

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    Right, because if someone wants to die and doesn't have a gun, the certainly would not try some other method like a sharp object, poison, jumping from a high altitude onto a hard surface, or any number of other things. <sarcasm off> If someone really wants to die badly enough there isn't really anything we could do to stop them short of putting them in an "I-love-me" suit and locking them in a padded room. Stupid people make my head hurt.
     
  4. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Hmm...I haven't looked at the statistics, but I'd bet more than a few of them use their prescription meds...
     
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  5. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I don't understand why they don't look at it as government assisted suicide... Don't progressives advocate for government assisted suicide? ;)
     
  6. Kelzebubba

    Kelzebubba Fort Worth, TX/USA Public Outhouse Active Member

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    I have an idea, how about people who aren't cut out for military life that are having these issues be allowed to leave the military with a general discharge that doesn't affect their futures? There are just some people that are not cut out for the military that sign up and they need to be allowed to leave before they take their own lives.
     
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  7. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they should think about that before signing.
     
  8. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Youngsters don't think beyond the Adventure point when enlisting. They don't think they will be in combat, They don't think they might get killed, They don't think! It is a World of $hit, period!
     
  9. Kelzebubba

    Kelzebubba Fort Worth, TX/USA Public Outhouse Active Member

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    Well that is the problem. I know there were recruiters out there that flat out lie to people. My recruiter only told me one lie. He said there were no communal showers, that they were all stalled. Other than that, he said that boot camp was like summer camp with one catch, your counselors wanted to kill you and torture you. He wasn't far off.

    My brother's recruiter on the other hand was 100% honest with him. My brother enlisted in 1999 in the US Army and went into the Finance Battalion at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma. When he enlisted he was told and it was very true, than no finance battalion had ever been deployed to an actual war zone situation. My brother was part of the first Finance Battalion to ever be deployed to a combat situation in Bosnia.

    However you have to realize, some people may be physically fit, but mentally unfit. They are not only a danger to themselves but to others around them. It would be to the benefit of all parties involved to let these people out without ruining their lives later.

    I don't know what your background is, but if you served, thanks for your service, thanks for preserving our rights, however to take such a hardline stance is a bit harsh.
     
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  10. JGRuby

    JGRuby Portland Oregon New Member

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    I remember getting shots n bootcamp and one of the guys crying because of the shot he was going to receive. I thought at the time that was the last person I wanted backing me up in a problem situation was that guy. It is funny I remember what he looks like to this day. I always felt that my longevity was dependent upon the ability to trust the individual in a bad situation as that persons longevity depended on me. There are many things in the military that require team work - it is those individuals that others cant trust that typically fall into this category and to them the way out is suicide. The military is not a dumping ground because you cant find anything better - it should be a place where you give to your country but you gain from those experiences, it makes you into a stronger person. I have taken one lesson through life with me from the military - your mind can be your best friend or your worse enemy - you must learn to control how and what you think about or it will drive you crazy.

    Respectfully

    James Ruby
     
  11. Morpheus

    Morpheus Columbia Gorge Anyway, back on the farm.

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    I have the utmost respect for people who are in the Armed Service. It makes me furious to see that people want to find a bandaid solution for a symptom and not actually dig into the real issues of the problem. Our service men and woman experience a lot of crazy sh*t when they serve.

    Years ago, they used to have weeks or months of boat travel to get home, basically in a forced group therapy with their comrades as they slowly came home. Now they go from combat to civilian life in a matter of hours. It seems fairly obvious to me that we are NOT providing the type of mental care that our men and woman need to reintegrate into civilian life. Or even non-combat life. People laugh about flash backs, PTSD, or whatever you want to call it. But having met enough ex-service people I know it is real. Agree or disagree with what they were doing, they still are OUR troops. They deserve a hell of a lot better care and assistance than we end up giving them.

    Demanding support for the troops needs to include making sure their physical and mental health is paid for so they can re-enter 'normal' society. We have been failing at this for a long time, and need to figure it out. A quick fix of taking away their rights. Rights they have earned far more than most of us armchair quarterbacks is not only a stupid idea but insulting to them and our country.

    M
     
  12. parsons_12b

    parsons_12b LaPine Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Having dealt with several Soldiers who have been suicidal I can tell you that most of these men were not weak. After multiple deployments and in many cases sustaining injuries they had reached the end of their rope and believes they had no other recourse. I know of one guy who after his third deployment were he was blown up and sustained severe head trauma and partial loss of motor skills. Was notified of both a pending divorce and separation from the military within a weeks time. After a night of heaving drinking he decided that he could not support himself as a civilian and he was too proud to ask for help so it was time to do everyone a favor and end his life. Had a friend not knocked on the door to check on him and convinced him to get help (I was called by the friend to help him find resources) this highly decorated man would of killed himself without hesitation. I'm appalled at those of you who think that these guys go through things that you could never imagine but because they don't act the way you think they should they are weak. Unless you have been there and seen the look on these guys faces an have heard their stories do not judge them.

    To the OP the suicide rate in the military has nothing to do with private ownership of firearms and I do not believe would be reduced by restricting them.
     
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  13. JGRuby

    JGRuby Portland Oregon New Member

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    I had a friend I met in Boot Camp - Great Mistakes in the summer of 1980 - his family had a long standing in the Navy - his grandafather as I remember was a retired admiral and his dad was a captain. We seperated after boot camp. On one of my trips home my parents gave me a letter addressed to me from him. By the time I recived the letter he had completed what he set out to do. It appears that he got involved with drugs and committed suicide versus facing his family by being dishonorably discharged from the Navy. He hung himself. A gun was not needed.

    In short there are many different reasons military members / civilians commit suicide. I am not certain that there can be a whole lot of generalizations that can be made. Some are very strong and some are outcasts, in general they simply dont know how to get past the problem they percieve in front of them.

    James Ruby
     
  14. Botte Hork

    Botte Hork Camas WA Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry to hear about your friend James, it's sad people make unfortunate choices in life and ultimately decide to end it.


    I don't get why limiting access to one particular tool to get the job (commit suicide) done would help, besides being another limitation in people's constitutional rights. I'd rather see that people have access to means to deal with the issue leading to suicide, such as the PTSD treatments for troops returning from combat zones. Supporting the troops doesn't stop when they set foot on American soil.
     
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  15. MikeSettles

    MikeSettles Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Restricting guns so service members would be unable to commit suicide is another red herring by the MSM. On-base possession of private arms is already restricted. Commanders have (several years ago) got their hands slapped for attempting to control off-base possession as well. (Fort Hood, anyone??)

    The DoD (and especially the Army) has had a very strong anti-suicide campaign going for about four years now. It has had a small effect, but not eradicated the problem. (When I was in pre-deployment training at Ft Dix in '09, we were hit with anti-suicide training so many times that we joked about doing ourselves in to avoid any more of the same!) My last deployment (Afghanistan 2010-11) was so frustrating that my wife tells me I had changed in a negative way, whereas my previous three (two to Afg and one to Iraq since 2006) had not been so bad - including in 2008 when my 80-man PRT suffered 12 casualties (including two dead) as the result of one rocket attack. I attribute the stress of my last deployment to bad commanders at several levels above me.

    Now the Army has a new program: "Resiliency" training, supposedly begun in Basic Training and continued periodically throughout a career, which prepares soldiers for the emotional stresses of service life and combat. I retired in January, and don't know whether the program has had any success. I hope that it does.

    But I will always maintain that the best form of suicide prevention is first class, competent, caring leadership. No DoD-mandated "program" will ever accomplish its goals without such leadership; and with such leadership throughout, such a program is largely unnecessary.

    Mike Settles, Sergeant Major, Retired: 42 years service USMC, Regular Army, National Guard, Army Reserve.
     
  16. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the SGM. There are always guys who will do something stupid. (Mike Varley jumped off the Narrows Bridge one day. He was upset that the Army considered his hospital time "bad time" and wouldn't let him re-up).

    As a leader, an NCO, we knew when the guys in our section (I was a lab type) needed to be talked to about life, or to see a professional. Sometimes, just being there to listen is all that is needed, sometimes the guys with initials after their names get involved, but KNOWING your guys is what it is all about.
     
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