"Combat" distances in active shooter situations?

[GuyBMeredith]

Are there any records on distance involved in active shooter situations? I seem to remember a comment about the police firing back at a distance of 70 feet or so, the distances inside classrooms seems obvious. Any notes on the mall and theater situations?

The reason for asking is to understand how many of the extreme situations can be defended against with a carry gun.

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[slimmer13]

In 94 at Fairchild AFB SSGT Andy Brown scored head and shoulder shots against an active shooter armed with a MAK 90 with his service Beretta at 70 yds.


Fairchild Air Force Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Koda]

I have no sources but in my opinion up to 50 yds average, longer if they have a rifle. Active shooters are not trying to get up close and personal like a mugger.

 

[GuyBMeredith]

I'm looking for information on the normal patterns.

 

[clearconscience]

Austin, TX
Officer hits gunman one shot in the chest, one handed, other hand holding the reins of his horse. 312 feet.

Cop's Deadeye Pistol Shot Took Down Austin Gunman at 100 Yards – War Is Boring

 

[clearconscience]

Why are you wanting to know?
What distance to practice?

These situations will be in schools, offices, malls, stores, etc.
This could range from point blank to 100 yards. If your looking at a decent distance I would be looking to escape and evade. Or find a strong place of cover and wait for the gunman to close in where you can get an effective shot off, hopefully as they run out of ammo and have to reload.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

If you are looking at a longer distance, you're required to evade if it's possible.

 

[GuyBMeredith]

My first choice is to evade. That tactic has gotten me through 70 years. HOWEVER, I am curious about the actual distances that have been experienced to have an idea of what can be expected in events where evasion may not be an option, say in hiding behind a theater seat.

 

[Flopsweat]

My first choice is to evade. That tactic has gotten me through 70 years. HOWEVER, I am curious about the actual distances that have been experienced to have an idea of what can be expected in events where evasion may not be an option, say in hiding behind a theater seat.

There is an old formula called, if I remember this right, the "three threes": three yards, three shots, three seconds. Meaning, of course, that the typical gunfight will occur at a distance of three yards or less, with each shooter firing three shots or less, and will be over in about three seconds. You will also often hear that 75% of all gunfights happen inside 10 feet, and half within, I think it's 3 feet. There have been some studies done if you want to search for "self defense shooting distance". Here's one detailed article on it: The Thinking Gunfighter: Self Defense Findings

From a practical standpoint, if I'm 7 yards away from the shooter, I'm going to run if I can. Have you tried to hit a moving target at that distance? It's not easy. Running is something that I can do reasonably well even under extreme stress. I'm not ashamed to admit that I know this first hand.

Actually, my first choice is to not be there in the first place, but that's the "Three Stupids" rule, which is another matter entirely.

 

[Who The F R U]

I'm looking for information on the normal patterns.

No such thing as a"Normal Pattern".
Could be 3 feet could be 300+ Yard's.

When I was in high school in CA. My best friends brother (VPD) shoot a 20 year old gang banger ( Active shooter) in the side of his face with a Beretta 9mm from 100 yards.


*Knocked his eye out
*Shattered most of the right side of his face
*Cracked his skull
*Made him deaf in 1 ear


I saw the guy in the old neighborhood after he was released he was pretty close to retarded from the head shot.
He had to walk with a cane and he had the mental state of a 6 year old .

He did look bad-azz with a cane and a pirate patch though.

Here is a link to an old article about the shooting.
Police Search Residences of Gang Members

Hasty got hired as LAPD SWAT 2 weeks after the shooting investigation was over..

 

[Certaindeaf]

If you are looking at a longer distance, you're required to evade if it's possible.

If they are trying to kill you?
I think you're thinking of California.

 

[Goosebrown]

FBI stats were that 90% of all shootings were within 3 yards with less than 3 shots fired and over in less than 3 seconds. We hear about the exceptions, but most shootings are fast and brutal.

 

[Koda]

the OP is asking about active shooter distances not personal attacks, there is a difference.

 

[Certaindeaf]

the OP is asking about active shooter distances not personal attacks, there is a difference.

I think most police "snipers" take their shots within 60 yards.. for whatever that's worth.

 

[Goosebrown]

the OP is asking about active shooter distances not personal attacks, there is a difference.

There's lots of ways to slice it up and as many active shooters are stopped up close as from longer shots. Probably more in fact. I would be surprised if nation wide there were 50 police kills a year at long range.

 

[Koda]

I think most police "snipers" take their shots within 60 yards.. for whatever that's worth.

and they also take longer shots but they always take their shots with a rifle, not a handgun...

 

[Koda]

There's lots of ways to slice it up and as many active shooters are stopped up close as from longer shots. Probably more in fact. I would be surprised if nation wide there were 50 police kills a year at long range.

Stopped at relative close range by highly trained swat teams with rifles, not concealed carry guns. The "333" rule does not apply.

I would otherwise agree with that but an active shooter situation is a much different tactic than the 3ft,3 shots, 3 seconds rule. Active shooters are a game changer in self defense and not the same as an up close and personal attack from a mugger or assaulter or car jacker etc.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I like the idea of evading ... But that is not always possible.
Also having experienced combat as an Infantryman / LRSD Leader it is difficult for me not to want to return fire.
If I was in fire fight now I would hope that whoever reviews / judges my actions would take my background into account.
That being said I kinda doubt that would be the case ...

I would think that having a good idea of where you need to aim to hit at 50 yards for a handgun and 100 yards for a rifle is a good baseline.
But with so many variables both legal and real life it is hard for me to come with a "hard and fast " rule so to speak.
Andy

 

[Goosebrown]

Stopped at relative close range by highly trained swat teams with rifles, not concealed carry guns. The "333" rule does not apply.

I would otherwise agree with that but an active shooter situation is a much different tactic than the 3ft,3 shots, 3 seconds rule. Active shooters are a game changer in self defense and not the same as an up close and personal attack from a mugger or assaulter or car jacker etc.

Nope. Most active shooter situations are not stopped by swat teams they're stopped by the first cop that gets there.

 

[Koda]

I would think that having a good idea of where you need to aim to hit at 50 yards for a handgun and 100 yards for a rifle is a good baseline.
But with so many variables both legal and real life it is hard for me to come with a "hard and fast " rule so to speak.

^^^this is a good start to the OPs question. I think adding 50 yds to pistol training is a good idea.