CMP 1911's about to hit the streets

[HuckFin]

Several years ago I ordered a M1 Garand and 1000 rounds of ammo. After waiting months I got a letter in the mail from CMP, returning my money and saying that because I got a "delay" They wouldn't sell to me. So don't get your hopes up if you have had delays in the past.

 

[Medic!]

Several years ago I ordered a M1 Garand and 1000 rounds of ammo. After waiting months I got a letter in the mail from CMP, returning my money and saying that because I got a "delay" They wouldn't sell to me. So don't get your hopes up if you have had delays in the past.

Was it legit?
Is there some reason you can not own a gun?

Or are they just screwed up?

 

[tac]

Uh, being picky again, I know, but -

RMP = Royal Military Police, part of the British Army.


RCMP = Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the oldest national police force in North America

 

[HuckFin]

Was it legit?
Is there some reason you can not own a gun?

Or are they just screwed up?

There is no reason that I can't own a gun and according to the BATF the reason I get delayed is because, believe this or not, I was told that because they cannot find any reason for the delays they cannot give me an ok until they know the reason why...? Also I have had a concealed pistol permit for the past 23 years.
Actually there are several places that will not sell a gun to anyone who does not get an ok on a delay after I believe 5 working days...Not sure on how many days, it might depend on the store. You might want to ask up front what their policy is.

 

[JRuby]

The 1911's we used on the boats always fired where the bullet would go was a bit of a surprise as the pistols were so worn. I am amazed at what they are worth. They sounded like a marble in a can. I think if I had the thousand I would put it towards a better firearm.

 

[NCW_Robert]

You can still find these old 1911 vintage guns for sale if you look around. They get sold at the usual online gun sales venues all the time. What is the big deal about buying one from the CMP? It is the same thing you can find in your local pawn shop or classified ads or, on gunbroaker for a few hundred too much or here maybe for reasonable or less the guncroaker.

I have even seen a few listed in the local nickle ads classified ads. One was listed about 6 month ago was supposed to be grandpa's old gun, all original with holster for 1000.00. I called and there was like 3 guys ahead of me so the lady said she would call me back if none of them bought it. Of course I never got the call back. I don't know what it actually was and if it would have been a great deal or not as there was no picture.

I would love to have an old but functional 1911 from that original era but I don't really want to over pay for something that looks like crap and is not safe to shoot. I got enough guns I don't shoot now. But... if one ever comes along for a reasonable price and I have the $$ or even if I don't, I'd grab it. Some times the fun is in the hunt to acquire something for less then the usual going price. Not so much so you can re-sell it but more so you can buy it and know you were nobodies fool.

As for currant prices, well, can't blame people for trying to get as much as they can from the idiots with too much $$. What would you or I do if we have something we could sell for 1200? put it up for sale at 600? probably not...

I got the same problem with muscle cars. owned a bunch when they were cheap and I was a lot younger. Hell we would buy em cheap, street race em til they blew and park them on the street so the cops would tow them away and just go find another in decent shape for 800 as that was a lot less then it would cost to rebuild the blown engine. Now would like a nice "66" mustang fastback but no dice as I'm just not gonna pay the going price. I was too stupid to buy a nice one and keep it when they were reasonable or even cheap so I'll just suffer from my stupidity and stew on it.

~

 

[Eric in Oregon]

You can still find these old 1911 vintage guns for sale if you look around. They get sold at the usual online gun sales venues all the time. What is the big deal about buying one from the CMP?

Provenance, I suppose. You get a certificate that you bought it through CMP which makes it more legit.

 

[NCW_Robert]

Provenance, I suppose. You get a certificate that you bought it through CMP which makes it more legit.

The gun itself is pretty much the only Provenance I would need. The CMP guns don't claim "used in war" or any for sure chain of ownership so you in the end, just get a chunk of steel in the shape of a 1911. If you know how to read the SN, you can tell when it was made and if you dig up a little history, you can know quite a bit about what you are contemplating buying just by the SN and manufacturer and proof marks etc.

I rounded up all that info and put it in a note on my phone including some info about prices etc. If I'm ever wondering about and stop in at a pawn shop or what ever and see a vintage 1911, I can decode it on the spot and know when it was made and make some kind of judgement on if it is worth the price being asked. I'd buy anything for cheap, but if the person is asking a price that is up there, is it fair, is it super cheap, as in is the gun rare and does it still have all the original internal parts?? making it a very desirable gun etc.

Being from the CMP means exactly nothing and give any gun, 1911 or any other gun ZERO Provenance to me, unless you really think seeing the words "CMP" makes it actually worth more $$. This is probably the case with a lot of people....

PS, save the info below in an email draft or note on your phone and you too can be a "smart" and informed 1911 buyer.

-------------------------------
1911 .45 ACP Production Information

Military Versions from 1912 to 1945.
Manufacturer/Serial Number/Date Made​

Beginning of M1911:
1) Colt: S/N 1 to 3190 = April 16, 1912 to May 31, 1912
2) Colt: S/N 3190 to 7501 = May 31, 1912 to Oct. 10, 1912

• (S/N 3501 to 3799 were first U.S.M.C. pistols made by Colt delivered June 6, 1912.)

3) Colt: S/N 7501 to (approximately) 20,000 = Oct. 10, 1912 to Jan. 1913
4) Colt: S/N (approx.) 20,000 to 83,856 = Jan. 1913 to Aug. 19, 1913

• S/N 38,001 to 43,900 Navy Model (USS New York) = March 9, 1912 to March 5, 1915
• S/N 43,901 to 44,000 Navy Model (USS Texas) = March 9, 1912 to March 5, 1915
• S/N 36,401 to 37,650 U.S.M.C. Model made by Colt = July 9, 1913

5) Colt: S/N 83,856 to 89,801 = Aug. 19, 1913 to July 20, 1914

• (S/N 83,901 to 84,400 U.S.M.C. Model = May 12, 1914)

6) Colt: S/N 89,801 to 108,601 = July 20, 1914 to Feb. 8, 1915

• (S/N 96,001 to 97,537 Navy Model (U.S. Navy Yard, Brooklyn, N.Y.) = March 9, 1912 to March 5, 1915)

7) Colt: S/N 108,601 to 290,000 = Feb. 8, 1915 to May, 1918

• (S/N 109,501 to 110,000 Navy Model, S/N 223,953 to 223,991 Navy Model, S/N 232,001 to 233,600 Navy Model)
• (S/N 151,187 to 151,986 U.S.M.C. Model, S/N 185,801 to 186,201 U.S.M.C. Model, S/N 209,587 to 210,386 U.S.M.C. Model, S/N 215,387 to 217,386 U.S.M.C. Model)

8) Colt/Springfield: S/N 128,617 to 133,186 = 1916 to 1924 ( These models are very hard to properly identify)
9) Colt: S/N 290,000 to 450,000 = May, 1918 to Oct. 24, 1918
10) Colt: S/N 450,000 to 629,500 = Oct. 24, 1918 to April 10, 1919
11) Springfield Armory: S/N 72,571 to 133,186 = April 1914 to April, 1917
12) Remington-UMC: S/N 1 to 15,000 = Aug. 10, 1918 to May 24, 1919
13) Remington-UMC: S/N 15,000 to 21,676 = Aug. 10, 1918 to May 24, 1919
14) North American Arms: S/N 1 to 100 & S/N's 111, 222, 333, 444, 555 = July 1, 1918 to Dec. 4, 1918. They are very rare and rank in value with Singer models. ( None of these were reported shipped to any branch of the military but about 100 regular models and about 5 presentation models were manufactured in Quebec, Canada by the North American Arms Company, Ltd.)
15) A. J. Savage Munitions Co. was issued a contract on July 20, 1918 and canceled on Dec. 4, 1918. Some parts were made but no complete pistols. It is unknown for sure if any slides were made and no frames were made.
Beginning of M1911A1:
14) Colt ( Transition Models): S/N 700,000 to 710,000 = 1924
15) Colt: S/N 710,001 to 711,000 = Early 1937
16) Colt: S/N 711,001 to 712,350 = Mid to Late 1937
17) Colt: S/N 712,350 to 713,645 = 1938
18)Colt: S/N 713,646 to 717,281 = 1939

• Begining in 1940, the slide's muzzel end was hardened after the finish was applied but a color mis-match was suppose to be rejected.
• From 1942 to 1945 all 1911A1 pistols should show a slight to very noticed mismatch of coloring on the muzzle end of slide, and from 1943 the slide lock notch area should also show some discoloration from hardening after the pistol's finish was applied.

19) Colt: S/N 717,282 to 721,977 = 1940
20) Colt: S/N 721,977 to 756,733 = 1941
21) Colt: S/N 756,734 to 857,000 = 1942 (S/N's 856,405 to 916,404 were also duplicated by Ithaca but will have "F.J.A." Ithaca inspection initials.)
22) Colt: S/N 857,000 to 1,609,529 = 1943 (S/N's 856,405 to 916,404 were duplicated by Ithaca look for "F.J.A." Ithaca inspection initials. S/N's 1,041,405 to 1,096,404 were duplicated by Union Switch & Signal. Look for "RCD" US&S inspection initials.)
23) Colt: (Commercial/Military Model) S/N 857,000 to 1,609,529 = 1943 (approx. 6,575 Commercial models were converted to military production. Colt stop it's commercial production at S/N C215,083)
24) Colt: S/N 1,609,529 to 1,743,846 = 1944
25) Colt: S/N 2,244,804 to 2,380,013 = 1945
26) Remington Rand: S/N 916,405 to 955,000 = 1943
27) Remington Rand: S/N 955,001 to 980,000 = 1943
28) Remington Rand: S/N 980,001 to 995,000 = 1943
29) Remington Rand: S/N 995,000 to 1,041,404 = 1943
30) Remington Rand: S/N 1,279,699 to 1,441,430 = 1943
31) Remington Rand: S/N 1,471,431 to 1,609,528 = 1943
32) Remington Rand: S/N 1,743,847 to 1,816,641 = 1944
33) Remington Rand: S/N 1,890,504 to 2,075,103 = 1944
34) Remington Rand: S/N 2,134,404 to 2,244,803 = 1945
35) Remington Rand: S/N 2,380,014 to 2,619,013 = 1945
36) Ithaca: S/N 856,405 to 900,000 = 1943 ( S/N's 856,101 to 958,100 were duplicated by Colt, look for "G.H.D." or "W.B." Colt inspection initials.)
37) Ithaca: S/N 900,001 to 914,000 = 1943
38) Ithaca: S/N 914,000 to 916,404 = 1943
39) Ithaca: S/N 1,208,674 to 1,279,673 = 1943
40) Ithaca: S/N 1,441,431 to 1,471,430 = 1943
41) Ithaca: S/N 1,816,642 to 1,890,503 = 1944
42) Ithaca: S/N 2,075,104 to 2,134,403 = 1945
43) Ithaca: S/N 2,619,014 to 2,693,613 = 1945
44) Singer: S/N S800001 to S800500 = 1941 ( Use great care in evaluating these. They are very rare and valuable. This pistol is also counterfeited the most.) Slide markings are: S. MFG. CO. ELIZABETH,N.J., U.S.A.
45) Union Switch & Signal: S/N 1,041,405 to 1,060,000 = 1943
46) Union Switch & Signal: S/N 1,060,000 to 1,096,404 = 1943 (S/N's 1,088,726 to 1,092,896 were duplicated by Colt. Look for "G.H.D." or "W.B." Colt inspection initials.)
Special Versions:
1) Springfield Armory: U.S. ARMY NATIONAL MATCH = 1954 to 1967 (Very hard to identify. Early 1954 models looked like regular 1911A1 and later versions usually had adjustable sights.)
2) U.S. AIR FORCE MATCH = 1958 to 1970 ( Produced by U.S.A.F. Gunsmiths. Very hard to identify except should have AFPG stamped on frame. A M1911A1 similar to Army National Match.)
3) Colt "ACE": Caliber = .22 Long Rifle S/N 1 to 10,935 = April 1931 to July 1941 (The last 190 or so were assembled from spare parts in 1947) Parts only partially interchangable with a .45 caliber M1911A1 pistol.
4) Colt Service Model "ACE" : Caliber .22 Long Rifle S/N SM 1 to SM 3,836 = Feb. 1936 to Jan. 1943 ( Between 1935 and Sept. 1945, 11,961 Colt Service Model "ACE" pistols were made and their parts were fully interchangable with the .45 caliber
M1911A1.
5) Colt Service Model "ACE" : S/N SM 3846 to SM 13,803 = April 1945 to Sept. 1945 ( Between 1938 and Oct. 1946, a total of 2149 .22-.45 conversion units were made to convert .45 caliber pistols to .22 caliber. They were: S/N U1 to U2670. From 1938 to 1940, .45-.22 conversion units were made to convert Service Model "ACE" .22 caliber pistols to .45 ACP. They were: S/N U1 to U112.)
Foreign Service Models:
1) Colt M1911 Canadian Contract: S/N C5400 to C16599 = Sept. to Nov., 1914 ( Only 5000 pistols in this serial number range were shipped to Canada.) Caliber .45 ACP
2) Colt M1911A1 Canadian Contract: S/N 930,000 to 936,000 = 1943 ( 1,515 military model pistols were shipped to Canada through the Lend-Leased Act from this serial number range.) Caliber .45 ACP
3) Colt M1911 British Contract: S/N W29117 to W97000 and S/N C29 to C74,200 = May 1912 to April 1919 (Approx. 17,500 pistols were shipped to England. Serial numbers that begin with a "C" were .45 ACP and serial numbers that begin with a "W" were .455 Webley calibers.
4) Colt M1911 British RAF Contract: S/N W91,100 to W110,696 = Jan. 22, 1918 to April 28, 1919 (Approx. 10,000 pistols were shipped to the Royal Air Force from this serial number range and were .455 Webley caliber.)
5) British M1911A1 WW II Lend-Lease: From all S/N's of U.S. M1911A1 models = March 11, 1941 through the rest of WW II ( The U.S. furnished 39,592 pistols to Britain through the Lend-Lease Act.)
6) Colt M1911 Russian Contract: S/N C23000 to C89000 = Feb. 19, 1916 to Jan. 18, 1917 ( Russia purchased 51,000 M1911 .45 ACP pistols during WW I. from this serial number range. Russia purchased more M1911 pistols than any other country besides the U.S.) Regular commercial model Colt except has "English Order" mark in Russian on left side of frame.
7) Colt M1911 Norwegian: Colt S/N C18501 to C18850 and Norway S/N 1 to 5000 = June 1915 to WW II (400 Colt 1911's .45 caliber purchased and issued to Norwegian Navy. May 1917, 300 Colt 1911 .45ACP pistols purchased in 1915. In 1917, Norway obtained licence to manufacture it's M1911 pistols. The first they made had "COLT AUT PISTOL M/1912" on the slides and then at S/N 100 this changed to "11.25 m/m AUT. PISTOL M/1914" on the slides.
8) Colt M1911 Argentine: S/N C6201 to C11621 = 1914, S/N C20,001 to C21000 = 1916 S/N C86790 to C116000 = 1919 ( 321 shipped in 1914 marked on right side of slide with "MARINA ARGENTINA". In 1915 another 1000 shipped within above S/N range. In 1919 another 400 M1911 Colts shipped in above S/N range. Imported into the U.S. in 1960 as surplus but very rare in any condition.)
9) Colt M1911A1 Argentine Modelo 1927: S/N 1 to 10,000 = July 28, 1927 to Feb. 16, 1928 ( Marked on slide with " COLT CAL. 45 MOD. 1927″ and S/N's stamped on top of slide in Colt's italic numbers.) SYST. COLT pistols made by Argintina under licence from Colt marked on right of slide with "EJERCITO ARGENTINO / SIST. COLT CAL 11.25 mm. Model 1927". Other M1911A1 pistols made in Argintina at Fabrica Militar de Armas Portatiles, Rosario, Argintina S/N 10,001 to 112,000
10) Colt M1911 MEXICAN: After WW I, Mexico procured an unknown number of M1911 pistols made by Colt. These are rare because of Mexico's strict penalties for illegal possession of military arms (ON SPOT EXECUTION). Very few made it to U.S. and would have a "C" prefix serial numbers. May have "EJERCITO MEXICANO" on right side of slide.


Colt Commercial Production: Govt. Model: 1912 to 1981
Model 1911
Serial Numbers – Date – Number Made
S/N C1 to C1899 – 1912 – 1899
S/N C1900 to C5399 – 1913 – 3500
S/N C5400 to C16599 – 1914 – 11,200
S/N C16600 to C27599 – 1915 – 11,000
S/N C27600 to C74999 – 1916 – 47,400
S/N C75000 to C98999 – 1917 – 24,000
S/N C99000 to C105999 – 1918 – 7000
S/N C106000 to C120999 – 1919 – 15,000
S/N C121000 to C126999 – 1920 – 6000
S/N C127000 to C128999 – 1921 – 2000
S/N C129000 to C129999 – 1922 – 1000
S/N C130000 to C133999 – 1923 – 4000
Some special military orders and military contractor orders were made.

• The following pistols were shipped to Major Cyrus S. Radford, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, on Feb. 13, 1917. with a prefix of 1 to 25 added to serial numbers.
• S/N's 1-C92505, 2-C92332, 3-C92227, 4-C91632, 5-C91739, 6-C91936, 7-C92359, 8-C91710, 9-C92326, 10-C92290, 11-C92239, 12-C92335, 13-C92291, 14-C92250, 15-C92347, 16-C92244, 17-C92343, 18-C92249, 19-C92156, 20-C92337, 21-C92358, 22-C92245, 24-C92243, 25-C92294
• S/N C201069 shipped to Springfield Armory on Sept. 28, 1919 for prototype tests.

__________________________________________________________________
Model 1911A1
Serial Numbers – Date – Number Made
S/N C135000 to C139999 – 1924 – 5000
S/N C140000 to 144999 – 1925 – 5000
S/N C145000 to C150999 – 1926 – 6000
S/N C151000 to C151999 – 1927 – 1000
S/N C152000 to C154999 – 1928 – 3000
S/N C155000 to C155999 – 1929 – 1000
S/N C156000 to C158999 – 1930 – 3000
S/N C159000 to C160999 – 1931 – 2000
S/N C161000 to C164799 – 1932 – 3800
S/N C164800 to C174599 – 1933 – 9800
S/N C174600 to C177999 – 1934 – 3400
S/N C178000 to C179799 – 1935 – 1800
S/N C179800 to C183199 – 1936 – 3400
S/N C183200 to C188699 – 1937 – 5500
S/N C188700 to C189599 – 1938 – 900
S/N C189600 to C198899 – 1939 – 9300
S/N C198900 to C199299 – 1940 – 400
S/N C199300 to C208799 – 1941 – 9500
S/N C208800 to C215018 – 1942 – 6219

• Production Stopped because of World War II. Commercial models converted to military use except for limited production of Service Model "ACE" with S/N's around SM2715.
• .22 to .45 Conversion Units made from S/N U1400 to 1700.
• In 1943, commercial models used to fill military orders. A limited amount of Super 38 & Super Match 38 produced. .22 to .45 Conversion Units made S/N U1701 to S/N U1750.
• In 1944 no commercial peroduction of any kind recorded.
• S/N SM3725 to SM13803 Service Model "ACE" .22 made, some gaps in numbering
• produced in 1945. Commercial production resumed in 1946.

S/N C221001 to C222000 – 1946 – 1000
S/N C222001 to C231999 – 1947 – 9999
S/N C232000 to C238500 – 1948 – 6501
S/N C238501 to C240000 – 1949 – 1500
S/N C240001 to 247700C – 1950 – 7700
S/N 247701C to 253179C – 1951 – 5479
S/N 253180C to 259549C – 1952 – 6370
S/N 259550C to 266349C – 1953 – 6800
S/N 266350C to 270549C – 1954 – 4200
S/N 270550C to 272549C – 1955 – 2000
S/N 272550C to 276699C – 1956 – 4150
S/N 276700C to 281999C – 1957 – 5300
S/N 282000C to 283799C – 1958 – 1800
S/N 283800C to 285799C – 1959 – 2000
S/N 285800C to 287999C – 1960 – 2200
S/N 288000C to 289849C – 1961 – 1850
S/N 289850C to 291299C – 1962 – 1450
S/N 291300C to 293799C – 1963 – 2500
S/N 293800C to 295999C – 1964 – 2200
S/N 296000C to 300299C – 1965 – 4300
S/N 300300C to 308499C – 1966 – 8200
S/N 308500C to 315599C – 1967 – 7100
S/N 315600C to 324499C – 1968 – 8900
S/N 324500C to 332649C – 1969 – 8150
S/N 332650C to 336169C – 1970 -3520
During 1970 the change to the new series "70" begins and serial numbers changed also.
S/N 70G01001 to 70G05550 – 1970 – 4550
S/N 70G05551 to 70G18000 – 1971 – 12,450
S/N 70G18001 to 70G34400 – 1972 – 16,400
S/N 70G34401 to 70G43000 – 1973 – 8600
S/N 70G43001 to 70G73000 – 1974 – 30,000
S/N 70G73001 to 70G88900 – 1975 – 15,900
S/N 70G88901 to 70G99999 – 1976 – 11,099
During 1976 a range change of serial number begins.
S/N 01001G70 to 13900G70 – 1976 – 12,900
S/N 13901G70 to 45199G70 – 1977 – 31,299
S/N 45200G70 to 89185G70 – 1978 – 43,986
S/N 89186G70 to 99999G70 – 1979 – 10,813
During 1979 a range change of serial numbers begins on March 20, 1979.
S/N 01000B70 to 30008B70 – 1979 – 29,008
S/N 30009B70 to 72989B70 – 1980 – 42,981
S/N 72990B70 to 99999B70 – 1981 – 27,009
During 1981 a range change of serial numbers begins on Oct. 17, 1981.
S/N 70B00001 to 70B11246 – 1981 – 11,246
Some special orders made for military or military contractors. These are as follows:

• S/N C211458 Sept. 22, 1942 shipped to Scovill Manufacturing Co. Waterbury, Conn.
• S/N's C212147, C212332, C212486, C212495 Sept. 29, 1942 shipped to Winchester
• Repeating Arms Co.
• S/N's C213341, C213242, C213343, C213345 May 27, 1942 shipped to Remington
• Arms Co. Bridgeport, Conn.
• S/N C214360 Jan. 2, 1945 Shipped to U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, Md.
• S/N's C214752, C214753, C214754 April 3, 1942 Shipped to Winchester Repeating
• Arms Co.
• S/N C214833 Nov. 10, 1942 Shipped to Capt. A. H. Harris, Hartford Ord. District.
• S/N C213905 Oct. 8, 1942 Shipped to J. A. Lorch, Washington, D.C.
• S/N C214016 Oct. 9, 1942 Shipped to Dominion of Canada.

-------------------------------

 

[nehalemguy]

Wouldn't it have been easier to just post the link?

E

 

[Medic!]

I like all the info. But paying full price for a all Correct 1911A1?

If you cant tell if the finish is original. The slide and frame match? And all the small parts are correct, plus barrel and other markings?
Not to mention for what version of what manufacturer as they constantly changed during WWII.

Then your gona get hurt.

The CMP guns are selling as mix-masters. And honestly are not worth $1000 as described.
But you just never know They may sell some correct 1911A1's with them? That's what I'm curious to see?

I have gotten better than advertised M1 rifles and carbines from them in the past. So we shall see?

 

[jbett98]

A couple of summers ago, a new member here put up for sale his late uncles 1944 Remington Rand 1911 for only $250.00.
Someone had tried to remove the slides finish with steel wool, but luckily they avoided the roll marks.
It was an all original pistol with no arsenal marks. I offered him the asking price and also a couple of boxes of some pistol ammo he needed and after picking it up, I drove it straight to Velzey in Estacada for refinishing.
He did an amazing job. There are a lot of these pistols out there and when they pop up you have to jump on them.

 

[Medic!]

Yes a fantastic job!

He did one of my 30 carbines.
Graveyard Guns

 

[cookie]

Has anyone bought one? In 1972 I traded a college roomie a Ithica slide and a Colt frame 1911 and thanks for the list of serial numbers and promptly had it accurized and reparked destroying the value but back then they were surplus. I treasure the1911 though.