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Closing the "Obama and Guns" thread is

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Trlsmn, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Ridiculous:

    It is your forum to do as you choose but I must point out the utter knee jerk hypocrisy!

    http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11237

    If the gun community can't discuss "Obama and Guns" amongst ourselves on a gun forum we will not be ready to make an intelligent argument with anti-gunners in a public setting.

    Again I must emphasize the word Ridiculous :banghead:
     
  2. Weebs

    Weebs Clackamas County Member

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    It was turning into a member on member pissing match...
     
  3. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    I stayed out of it and think closing it was the right thing to do since the OP was not being addressed. The OP asked for examples of legislation from the Obama administration regarding restricting gun rights and all he was getting was blather, misquotes, innuendo, hysteria, and falsehoods. Then when people could not address his topic they deflected the focus by going after the messenger.
     
  4. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    So exercise some line item vetoes and ask people to tone the personal attacks down, but to close such an important thread down is a mistake.
     
  5. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Along with his track record and precedence and personal quotes from Obama on his gun control views.
     
  6. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    The OP asked about legislation from the Obama administration and no one was able to cite even one example since he took office. Not even a valid quote. Everyone put on their partisan hats and jumped up on their hysteria soapbox. Then, typical to form, they reverted to attacks when they could not defend their own skewed perceptions.
     
  7. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    The executive office does not create legislation so that question can literally never be properly answered, so the answer must logically take the form it did.
     
  8. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    But they can back, support, endorse, promote, etc. There are no such examples.
     
  9. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Holder, H Clinton and the Mexico lie are such examples that I can point to with zero research.

    And support, endorse, promote does not equal create legislation so again I say the question is moot.
     
  10. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Double post
     
  11. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Really? You can point to existing legislation that the Obama administration has supported? I do not think you can.

    Is this thread about you disappointment of the original thread being closed...or is it just to let you keep repeating propaganda, untruths, and innuendo?
     
  12. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Even though I tend to agree with you on this one, even the great Trlsmn can't win them all. :D
     
  13. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    These are just a few of the ways he voted in the past and his comments and speeches are no different today. Everybody knows his intentions and thoughts on this matter and there would be more legistation if he was not to busy taking over private companies such as GM and Chrysler, banks, and insurance companies. He also had 65 Dems send him a letter not to do anything on the previous ban. There are many more ideas and plans that he has mentioned and if it was not for the current climate in the U.S. he would be trying to press them. If anybody sees Obama as an advocate for gun rights I feel there they are just choosing not to believe he is a threat to that right. He has the votes against guns and all the comments against them as well. Obama has never done anything to protect our rights. Here is another qoute from obama with the Mexian president: "I continue to believe that we can respect and honor the Second Amendment right in our Constitution -- the rights of sportsmen and hunters and homeowners that want to keep their families safe -- to lawfully bear arms, while dealing with assault weapons that, as we know here in Mexico, are used to fuel violence," Obama said.

    •1994 to 2001 - Obama was on the board of the anti-gun Joyce Foundation. This foundation is the largest funding source for radical anti-gun groups in the country.
    •1996 - Obama supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.
    •1999 - Obama proposed a 500 percent increase in the excise taxes on firearms and ammunition. This tax would effectively punish gun owners for buying guns and ammunition.
    •2003 - Obama voted in support of legislation that would have banned privately owned hunting shotguns, target rifles and black powder rifles in Illinois.
    •2004 - Obama voted against legislation intended to protect homeowners from prosecution in cases where they used a firearm to halt a home invasion

    Letter to Holder because of Obamas plans:

    Congress of the United States
    Washington, DC 20515

    March 17, 2009

    The Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr.
    Attorney General of the United States
    U.S. Department of Justice
    950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
    Washington, DC 20530

    Dear Attorney General Holder:

    As strong supporters of the Second Amendment, we were very concerned to see your recent remarks suggesting that the administration will push for the reinstatement of the 1994 ban on "assault weapons" and ammunition magazines.

    We believe that this ban was ineffective during the 10 years it was law, and would oppose its reenactment. Crime began falling before the ban was passed in 1994, and continued falling during and after the ban. The last time the murder rate was at its current level was more than forty years ago.

    Even the Urban Institute study of the ban's effectiveness mandated by the 103rd Congress found that it could only have a limited effect because "the banned weapons and magazines were never used in more than a modest fraction of all gun murders."

    It is hard to believe the ban would be any more effective in controlling crime by well-funded international drug traffickers, who regularly use grenade launchers, anti-tank rockets, and other weapons that are not available on the civilian market in the United States.

    The gun control community has intentionally misled many Americans into believing that these weapons are fully automatic machine guns. They are not. These firearms fire one shot for every trigger pull. Some of the guns that would be banned under proposed bills have been around for more than 70 years, and are often passed down from generation to generation.

    Many of our constituents lawfully own and use these firearms and ammunition magazines that would be affected by the new ban. Indeed, these are commonly owned firearms throughout the country. Law-abiding Americans use these guns for all the same reasons they use any other kind of gun - competitive shooting, hunting, and defending their homes and families.

    Our constituents also have very real and serious problems that we in Congress urgently need to address. People are worried about keeping their jobs, paying for their families' health care, educating their children, and retiring with kind of security their parents and grandparents enjoyed. A long and divisive fight over a gun control issue will only distract us from giving these more important issues the attention they deserve.

    Again, we would actively oppose any effort to reinstate the 1994 ban, or to pass any similar law. We urge you to abandon this initiative and to focus instead on effective law enforcement strategies to enforce our current laws against violent criminals and drug traffickers.

    Sincerely,

    1. Mike Ross (D-AR)
    2. Tim Holden (D-PA)
    3. Jerry Costello (D-IL)
    4. Jim Matheson (D-UT)
    5. Sanford Bishop (D-GA)
    6. John Dingell (D-MI)
    7. Marion Berry (D-AR)
    8. Nick Rahall (D-WV)
    9. Gene Green (D-TX)
    10. Chet Edwards (D-TX)
    11. Ciro Rodriguez (D-TX)
    12. Gene Taylor (D-MS)
    13. Bart Stupak (D-MI)
    14. Collin Peterson (D-MN)
    15. Harry Teague (D-NM)
    16. John Tanner (D-TN)
    17. Allen Boyd (D-FL)
    18. Dennis Cardoza (D-CA)
    19. Eric Massa (D-NY)
    20. Steve Kagen, M.D. (D-WI)
    21. Betsy Markey (D-CO)
    22. Paul Hodes (D-NH)
    23. Ron Kind (D-WI)
    24. Peter Welch (D-VT)
    25. Leonard Boswell (D-IA)
    26. Tim Ryan (D-OH)
    27. Walt Minnick (D-ID)
    28. John Boccieri (D-OH)
    29. Joe Donnelly (D-IN)
    30. Tom Perriello (D-VA)
    31. Earl Pomeroy (D-ND)
    32. Ben Chandler (D-KY)
    33. Martin Heinrich (D-NM)
    34. Debbie Halvorson (D-IL)
    35. Travis Childers (D-MS)
    36. Tim Walz (D-MN)
    37. Peter DeFazio (D-OR)
    38. Solomon Ortiz (D-TX)
    39. Paul Kanjorski (D-PA)
    40. Rick Boucher (D-VA)
    41. Mike McIntyre (D-NC)
    42. John Murtha (D-PA)
    43. Bart Gordon (D-TN)
    44. Zach Space (D-OH)
    45. Alan Mollohan (D-WV)
    46. Lincoln Davis (D-TN)
    47. Artur Davis (D-AL)
    48. Charlie Melancon (D-LA)
    49. John Barrow (D-GA)
    50. Christopher Carney (D-PA)
    51. Dan Boren (D-OK)
    52. Parker Griffith (D-AL)
    53. Charlie Wilson (D-OH)
    54. Heath Shuler (D-NC)
    55. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (D-SD)
    56. Jim Marshall (D-GA)
    57. Jason Altmire (D-PA)
    58. Larry Kissell (D-NC)
    59. John Salazar (D-CO)
    60. Brad Ellsworth (D-IN)
    61. Frank Kratovil (D-MD)
    62. Glenn Nye (D-VA)
    63. Bobby Bright (D-AL)
    64. Ann Kirkpatrick (D-AZ)
    65. Joe Baca (D-CA)


    Good luck in defending Obama and that he is a gun supporter and that he has no plans to limit our rights regarding firearms.

    Scott
     
  14. Monkeyman

    Monkeyman Portland, OR Member

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    It had probably run its course, but the thread did produce some thoughtful sourcing of the administration's philosophy and track record, as well as some ad hominem silliness. From both sides, I think.

    I wonder if you're referring to the posts like nos. 9, 10, 11 38 and especially 42 as innuendo and half-truth?

    Just curious.
     
  15. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Until Obama signs legislation it can be argued that he did not support it so the point is moot.

    That just reinforces my assertion that the question is moot as the Executive branch doesn't make legislation so all we have are track record, precedence and personal quotes to look to.


    It was about my disappointment, but being the OP I will allow all discussion, repeating truths, dispelling innuendo etc.., I'm flexible like that. :thumbup:

    Please no personal attacks people (humorous snark is encouraged though)!
     
  16. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Don't you guys have jobs? :horse:
     
  17. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Like litterers and criminals we are creating jobs for others! :D
     
  18. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Not really...I just sit at home wearing my helmet, collecting my special needs check, and posting on internet forums. :)
     
  19. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    Famous quote from Biden and I love it. Biden's answer from a guy asking about his AR and keeping it safe.
    According to him we all need help.


    “I’ll tell you what, if that is his baby, he needs help,” Biden said. “I don’t know that he is mentally qualified to own that gun.”
     
  20. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Biden? you mean the number 2 guy in the Obama administration that proposed assault weapon ban legislation? :p