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How's about using a " rubber non-lethal round" in your 410...
.... But, y'know, as the LAST round?

asking for a friend

It always perplexes me how some people can be so devoted to NOT shooting someone who has committed to enacting potentially lethal violence. Guns should not be used as compliance pieces, either pull it and intend to use it in defense of your life, or don't pull it at all. Carrying a gun on my person already signifies for me, that I am willing to use it to defend myself and loved ones from felony violence. If I am in a situation where there is not a direct threat that I need to use it for, getting out of that situation where I feel less inclined to pull my pistol is priority #2, after making sure #1, loved ones are out of harms way, is handled. Simply put - pulling a gun out to threaten, is a very bad slope that I have no interest ever being on.

Edit: Put some pepper spray on your belt if you desire a non-lethal option as it is completely unrelated to a gun. (I did) Having an option is good, not every problem can be legally solved with lethal force.
 
I don't understand the statement, "hyper focused craving for center mass"

Are you referring to shot placement? Because that is just a general guideline to help get shots on target - in the defense of your life, shooting ANY part of the attacker would be better than none, there are simply anatomically speaking more effective areas than others.

To speak toward your .410 pistol. There are a lot of videos showing them to be comparatively inferior for self defense purposes, and while no one will volunteer to be shot with one, they represent more of a marketing success than a superbly effective self defense tool compared to traditional pistol cartridges.

Did not mean to confuse. I meant our fervent study of marksmanship for defense. I'm not judging. I do it weekly.
No I am not carrying a shotgun to Nordstroms.
 
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Hopefully a pro 2A person can sneak onto your jury. I like to think I saved a man from several BS charges, one being weapon related, years ago. The old hags I was serving on the jury with wanted to lynch him by his nutz for DARING to strike a woman (she got in the way of a male/male fight, tripped and scraped her knee.) Point is, just because something like caliber SHOULDN'T matter, doesn't mean it DOESN'T to the jury. The general population is psycho and bloodthirsty
 
Please bear with me as I think outloud the big question.
As Left Coast subversion and riots escalate, viscious attacks on anyone unsympathetic to the cause or the color of their hat, surrounding and pummeling cars lost down alleys like a bad Bronson movie, the Blue Flu..... it seems more likely than EVER that CHL owners may have to use their weapons in SD. Like soon.

Awaiting BGC approval for a luscious .410 handgun, naturally I researched assorted lethal shotgun ammo and how it may be employed from a car, close quarter skateboard attacks and imagine the damage that would be inflicted from an explosion of Winchester flying disks and BB cocktails tearing into a human torso at close range.

Yes to save my or my children's lives this would be necessary, I get it. but now that the real prospect that this day draws near, frankly it shakes me a bit. ER surgeons decry frangible GSWs like war crimes and simply inflicting this sort of wound is beginning to torment my Christian and moral sensibilties.

I am trained, have instructed, carry and hold a CHL, have guns in 9 calibers and more holsters than Big 5.. so I have been preparing for the mindset and physical aspects of this event. I have been shopping for USCCA type products and watching vids describing a nightmare called an SD shoot in today's political justice system. Heavy shiite.

How many of you have recently stopped to really digest the gravity of possibly shooting someone in what could be anyday now? I mean this year!!! Aside from bravado and generaly disgust of masked snowflakes are we as the local gun culture seriously ready for that?


.410 out of a pistol is absolute trash. Not to mention limited capacity. Stick to 9, 40, .45 is HST JHP.
 
Did not mean to confuse. I meant our fervent study of marksmanship that is a thin veil for shooting people. I'm not judging. I do it weekly.
No I am not carrying a shotgun to Nordstroms.

I'm still confused by this statement, "fervent stud of marksmanship that is thin veil for shooting people" - I'd imagine for many people, it is like anything else, if you are going to dedicate to the idea of defending oneself with a firearm, actually being effective to potentially do it is important. Beyond that - target shooting is simply FUN. Equating target shooting to 'practicing to shoot people' to me sounds like a claim a leftist gun grabbing politician would make. Target shooting, and practice, is all about hitting a target accurately, what that target is entirely depends on the situation of the shooter whether that be an orange clay, or a bullseye, or a silhouette.

To me, the heart (and knowledge/experience) of the man (or woman) is the most important part of the entire gun equation. Some people you could hand a nuclear football to and the whole world would still be safe, others, you couldn't trust with a hammer.

Long story short, get training, avoid stupid crap with stupid people at stupid times of day, and if the need to ever defend yourself with lethal force ever arises, call the police right away to report you've been attacked and then shut up until you've had a conference with your lawyer.
 
Ok, lets look at a serious real world possibility here! Were very close to the edge here, one of lawlessness and chaos, a time when we must choose to defend ourselves and all we hold dear. We are almost at the point of having to open carry, to include long guns just to go to the store for needed supplies! With this push to de-fund the police and remove our protection, we have already seen an explosion in crimes, especially violent crimes against innocent people in areas where police are no longer doing their jobs! So, what does this look like when we have to defend ourselves in a society with no rule of law?
Who is going to come when you call 911, who is going to come and investigate a shooting, ANY shooting, defensive or criminal? And, who is going to attempt to prosecute some one for any of this? Street Justice, Revenge, Vendetta, Jollies, Crime, ect...........
It's going to get super ugly, and who do you trust? The Boog is Real, and it's Real Close at hand!

How are you training now? How are you prepared to go out and about, just going about life as normal as you can?
How are you set for self defense now?

Pretty heady stuff to have to think about! What if we cant get this under control? What if Pedo Joe and his Ilk win in Nov? what if Covid gets a lot worse this fall and winter? What if our Police all quit and walk off the job?
 
I've not read all the posts.

That said, if my home is invaded, I will defend my home, wife and self.

Agonizing over this, that, the other isn't what the home invader is doing, so you're not obligated either.

Simple.
 
For personal Defense. Use what the local LEO's use. If you do not, you are at great risk of going to jail.
Reminds me of the case where a person used a 10mm in defense. It was an otherwise good shoot, but he was convicted for use of excessive force.
Regardless of caliber or modification, a deadly weapon cannot be made "more deadly". Dead is dead. This has been established in case law.
the only reason someone would land in jail is, they ignored the first rule of dealing with the police. Shut the f*** up. Anything you say can be misconstrued, taken out of context, and used against you. Any thing you testify to will be suspect, anything law enforcement says will be taken as gospel.
 
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A 10mm, and ESPECIALLY hand loads, as a carry piece, if used, will land you in jail. I'm not being paid to be your attorney. But if you do some research, you will find I speak the truth. Here is a helping clue - The NRA came to help with this mans case.
Are you aware of the cost of a good Lawyer, in a shooting defense trial? Since I have already ran into much opposition with regard to this thread - Do some research. And I hope you have a spare million dollars.






Sometimes people just say stuff.



Look!
I just did it!
 
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Regardless of caliber or modification, a deadly weapon cannot be made "more deadly". Dead is dead. This has been established in case law.
the only reason someone would land in jail is, they ignored the first rule of dealing with the police. Shut the f*** up. Anything you say can be misconstrued, taken out of context, and used against you. Any thing you testify to will be suspect, anything law enforcement says will be taken as gospel.
that reminds me of the LEO who testified at the trial I was on noted he had a college degree. From a certain online campus that is known to give you any degree you want right then and there for the right amount of money. I had a hard time not laughing out loud in court when I recognized the name
 
Ok, lets look at a serious real world possibility here! Were very close to the edge here, one of lawlessness and chaos, a time when we must choose to defend ourselves and all we hold dear. We are almost at the point of having to open carry, to include long guns just to go to the store for needed supplies! With this push to de-fund the police and remove our protection, we have already seen an explosion in crimes, especially violent crimes against innocent people in areas where police are no longer doing their jobs! So, what does this look like when we have to defend ourselves in a society with no rule of law?
Who is going to come when you call 911, who is going to come and investigate a shooting, ANY shooting, defensive or criminal? And, who is going to attempt to prosecute some one for any of this? Street Justice, Revenge, Vendetta, Jollies, Crime, ect...........
It's going to get super ugly, and who do you trust? The Boog is Real, and it's Real Close at hand!

How are you training now? How are you prepared to go out and about, just going about life as normal as you can?
How are you set for self defense now?

Pretty heady stuff to have to think about! What if we cant get this under control? What if Pedo Joe and his Ilk win in Nov? what if Covid gets a lot worse this fall and winter? What if our Police all quit and walk off the job?
Thank you. We were devolving think.
 
Ok, lets look at a serious real world possibility here! Were very close to the edge here, one of lawlessness and chaos, a time when we must choose to defend ourselves and all we hold dear. We are almost at the point of having to open carry, to include long guns just to go to the store for needed supplies! With this push to de-fund the police and remove our protection, we have already seen an explosion in crimes, especially violent crimes against innocent people in areas where police are no longer doing their jobs! So, what does this look like when we have to defend ourselves in a society with no rule of law?
Who is going to come when you call 911, who is going to come and investigate a shooting, ANY shooting, defensive or criminal? And, who is going to attempt to prosecute some one for any of this? Street Justice, Revenge, Vendetta, Jollies, Crime, ect...........
It's going to get super ugly, and who do you trust? The Boog is Real, and it's Real Close at hand!

How are you training now? How are you prepared to go out and about, just going about life as normal as you can?
How are you set for self defense now?

Pretty heady stuff to have to think about! What if we cant get this under control? What if Pedo Joe and his Ilk win in Nov? what if Covid gets a lot worse this fall and winter? What if our Police all quit and walk off the job?


Law and order is still 100% functional to prosecute you for defending yourself, and probably will be for a very long time barring a monumental natural disaster such as yellowstone or a Carington event.

That is the whole point. Empower criminals while demoralizing the "subjects".
 

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