Clearing your property at night with a weapon mounted light - when using your light turns into brandishing your weapon. (Menacing)

[sobo]

I appreciate all the input here.
I also now realize that I'm off the fence with regards to getting a USCCA policy.
Probably the best investment for at least the next coming year alone.

With respect to USCCA insurance, get it! I'd still have it if our AG Sideshow Bob hadn't taken a page out of King Cuomo's book and killed it up here in WA.
Buy it while you still can is my advice.

PS: Where is "Port Sumter"? Don't find it listed anywhere on the innerwebz. Keeps coming up as Fort Sumter, and I know that ain't right...

 

[EHJ]

With respect to USCCA insurance, get it! I'd still have it if our AG Sideshow Bob hadn't taken a page out of King Cuomo's book and killed it up here in WA.
Buy it while you still can is my advice.

PS: Where is "Port Sumter"? Don't find it listed anywhere on the innerwebz. Keeps coming up as Fort Sumter, and I know that ain't right...

Port Sumter will not fall!

It's a civil war thing. My grandparents were old Charleston SC and half my childhood was there.
A play on Fort Sumter - the first US battlement to fall during the Southern Succession and following civil war.

Portlandistan.

 

[American123]

From my (common sense) point of view, if you are on your own property addressing an unknown trespasser/potential threat it isn't brandishing to have a gun pulled with or without light. Now if you were pointing a gun at a neighbor just to be a dick - legal trouble. Also, if you leave your property, your rights get limited what you can do on your property is more than on public property.

I had to have this conversation with my dad who was responding to car prowlers in public right of way and needed to know what was considered brandishing/assault on public property vs being on his own property.

 

[awshoot]

Infrared? I can see out to about 50' around my house in every direction and view the results holed up inside while looking at a TV or tablet if I'm moving.

 

[sobo]

Port Sumter will not fall!

It's a civil war thing. My grandparents were old Charleston SC and half my childhood was there.
A play on Fort Sumter - the first US battlement to fall during the Southern Succession and following civil war.

Portlandistan.

Yeah, I know about the real Fort Sumter, and all that Civil War stuff. Spent several years of my mid-to-late teens in northern Virginia and did a lot of CW battlefield touring and stuff. Just couldn't figure out where the play on words was being applied in your case in Orygun. Thanks for the update!

PS: You call it Portlandistan. Having spent a few years in Afghanistan, I like it. I call it Portlandia. Portlandia seems so much more idyllic and utopian...

 

[OldTengu]

Yeah, I know about the real Fort Sumter, and all that Civil War stuff. Spent several years of my mid-to-late teens in northern Virginia and did a lot of CW battlefield touring and stuff. Just couldn't figure out where the play on words was being applied in your case in Orygun. Thanks for the update!

PS: You call it Portlandistan. Having spent a few years in Afghanistan, I like it. I call it Portlandia. Portlandia seems so much more idyllic and utopian...

I think it's old nickname of "Little Beirut" is more applicable than either, these days.

 

[sobo]

I think it's old nickname of "Little Beirut" is more applicable than either, these days.

Whoa! Never heard that one before now...

 

[EHJ]

Whoa! Never heard that one before now...

Bush coined it - the last time a republican ever stepped foot in Portland to campaign.

 

[titsonritz]

Bush coined it - the last time a republican ever stepped foot in Portland to campaign.

It was a staffer.

Big Trouble in Little Beirut
RIP George Bush. Here's How Portland Protested Him in the 1990s, and Earned the Name "Little Beirut."

 

[Patriot1775]

Thanks for bringing this up. Never gave it a second thought. Now with anarchists, domestic terrorists, socialists and just plain wackos being given a pass or actual approval by the media/leftist politicians, this may be beneficial to evaluate your threat response for the future.

 

[Tony617]

With respect to USCCA insurance, get it! I'd still have it if our AG Sideshow Bob hadn't taken a page out of King Cuomo's book and killed it up here in WA.
Buy it while you still can is my advice.

PS: Where is "Port Sumter"? Don't find it listed anywhere on the innerwebz. Keeps coming up as Fort Sumter, and I know that ain't right...

i was able to renew my ACLDN membership since I already was a member but they are not offering new membershIps currently.

 

[sobo]

i was able to renew my ACLDN membership since I already was a member but they are not offering new membershIps currently.

I'm happy for you. I did not act fast enough to get signed up with ACLDN after the Insurance Commissioner invalidated my USCCA coverage, so I was left out in the cold with ACLDN, as well as all of the other similar concealed carry insurance providers. This sort of asshattery on the part of gub'mint really chaps my butt...

 

[DukeLancington]

In Oregon and Washington simple trespass on your property (outdoors) does not rise to the level of warranting a response of deadly force. Pointing a gun at someone is considered deadly force in both Oregon and Washington. There's also the moral question in addition to the legal. If someone's kid or adult with developmental disabilities wanders onto your property is it going to make you feel good to point a gun at them? What if it's an elderly neighbor who is lost in the dark? It's the Maslow's "if your only tool is a hammer you treat everything like a nail" issue. Get some other tools. Again, I want to emphasize that I am talking about outside the home, and simple trespass only.

Don't be this guy.

I'm happy for you. I did not act fast enough to get signed up with ACLDN after the Insurance Commissioner invalidated my USCCA coverage, so I was left out in the cold with ACLDN, as well as all of the other similar concealed carry insurance providers. This sort of asshattery on the part of gub'mint really chaps my butt...

ACLDN does not consider themselves insurance and I believe they are suing the state of Washington right now.

 

[WillametteWill]

There's things a WML is good for, and things a hand-held is good for -- carry both, and use the right tool for the job at the right time.

Word.

Searching with a WML means that you will be pointing at things...possibly including people. In the same situation during daylight, you may have your gun out but in say a low ready (insert the ready position of your choice, high Sabrina, Sul etc.). So now, to see what level of threat you are dealing with you have to point a firearm directly at a person. With a handheld light you can illuminate the potential threat while staying at the ready.

One of the biggest issues is startle response that causes a ND, a very real possibility. For nearly everyone, they will be startled when they find someone in their backyard. Whether it is a bad guy or drunk college kid on the wrong block. I have pointed guns at lots of people, I have been at a low ready for many times more. Threat was possibly there, so at the low ready. Lethal force threat there, gun on target. Personally, have WML but prefer handheld. I train to shoot with a light both out to the side and supporting the firearm. Thanks for this post OP, it will inspire me to refresh my training with this again soon. Good discussion everyone!

 

[sobo]

In Oregon and Washington simple trespass on your property (outdoors) does not rise to the level of warranting a response of deadly force. Pointing a gun at someone is considered deadly force in both Oregon and Washington. There's also the moral question in addition to the legal. If someone's kid or adult with developmental disabilities wanders onto your property is it going to make you feel good to point a gun at them? What if it's an elderly neighbor who is lost in the dark? It's the Maslow's "if your only tool is a hammer you treat everything like a nail" issue. Get some other tools. Again, I want to emphasize that I am talking about outside the home, and simple trespass only.

Don't be this guy.

Interesting. I wonder why the two decedents were dropped off at the property and trespassed in the first place...

ACLDN does not consider themselves insurance and I believe they are suing the state of Washington right now.

Correct. It is my understanding that all of the outfits that were banned by the IC are also suing the State. As they rightly should. That would include the ACLDN, NRA, USCCA, CW Safe, etc.

 

[DukeLancington]

Interesting. I wonder why the two deceased were being dropped off at the property, yet the vehicle, drier, and other occupant that delivered them there were still operating in the area...

What makes you say that? I don't believe they were, and in fact they inexplicably waited like 8 hours before reporting the phone call they got from one of the men about them being shot at.

No idea why they were on his property but perhaps they were lost looking for another place, it can be confusing navigating around there. I don't know if they've ever figured that out.

 

[sobo]

Word.

Searching with a WML means that you will be pointing at things...possibly including people. In the same situation during daylight, you may have your gun out but in say a low ready (insert the ready position of your choice, high Sabrina, Sul etc.). So now, to see what level of threat you are dealing with you have to point a firearm directly at a person. With a handheld light you can illuminate the potential threat while staying at the ready.

It is also possible to illuminate the area in front of one with a WML at low ready without flagging/sweeping people. My trainer uses this approach with us.
It requires a WML with high lumens, say, at least 300 lumens. Much higher than what comes with your basic MagLite/flashlight.
I use a SureFire X-300U-A Ultra, 500 lumens. It casts quite the beam, and quite the "halo" when at low ready.

 

[sobo]

What makes you say that? I don't believe they were, and in fact they inexplicably waited like 8 hours before reporting the phone call they got from one of the men about them being shot at.

No idea why they were on his property but perhaps they were lost looking for another place, it can be confusing navigating around there. I don't know if they've ever figured that out.

I edited my post after you quoted it. I re-read the article you linked and did not, upon review, see where the driver remained in the area, only that one of the decedents called the woman. I mistakenly assumed that she remained in the area to receive the call.

 

[EHJ]

It is also possible to illuminate the area in front of one with a WML at low ready without flagging/sweeping people. My trainer uses this approach with us.
It requires a WML with high lumens, say, at least 300 lumens. Much higher than what comes with your basic MagLite/flashlight. I use a SureFire X-300B Ultra, 500 lumens

And here I am out here sweeping with a 1000 lumen Fenix out on the end of a Benelli M4 in strobe mode....

 

[DukeLancington]

I edited my post after you quoted it. I re-read the article you linked and did not, upon review, see where the driver remained in the area, only the one of the decedents called the woman. I mistakenly assumed that she remained in the area to receive the call.

Oh man wait til you find out you can call people in other countries without having to travel there!