Clarification on NFA list purchases.

[DOA]

I just asked this in "legal and political", but couldn't delete it there. I did read "devils in the details", but I need more details please.

Hi I'm new and I have tried to find the answer to my questions on this site and anywhere on the internet, to no avail, and I was hoping someone can help me answer my questions. Let me first state that I do NOT have any of the following, but I am only seeking answers prior to making any sort of purchase. I would love to own a Thompson M1A1 and/or AR-15 with all the options including a suppressor with a grenade launcher, but I would just be happy with a Thompson A1 like my grandpa fought the Korean war with...but my cousin bought it before I had the chance to. If a private party or the opportunity at a gun show presents itself that I can buy what I want at a good price, I want to know my rights and laws.

Questions;

1. If I buy a NFA weapon/suppressor/destructive device from anyone in Oregon, other than an FFL Dealer, do I still need to register it and pay the $200 dollar tax fee?

2. If I buy an NFA weapon/suppressor/DD at a gun show does it still need to be registered and pay $200?

3. Am I safe buying in a private sale an NFA listed pre-ban/post-ban fully automatic weapon or DD if it was never registered and after the sale I find out that it was not registered prior to my ownership? How do I register it, if I am required to, if it's never been registered? Does this kind of thing happen or do people register it before buying and pay the fee first? If after I have purchased it can I find myself in legal trouble for buying an unregistered NFA gun?

Again, I'm new and I know that my questions may sound dumb. I just want make sure that I am in the clear and legally covered in my private or gun show type purchases. I'm assuming most if not all NFA owners/sellers already know the answers, but I don't, and I'm not expecting full disclosure in a sale to a complete noob. So I feel safe asking here first.

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[pokerace]

#1 yes if you can see #3

yes you will not receive it until all the NFA paper work is done and oked.

No if it has not been registered you probably can't you have lost your money and your life as you know it.(if anybody finds out about it.)

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

#1, yes you must go through the form 4 process.
#2, same as #1.
#3, it had to be on the NFA registry prior to 1986. if it is not already registered then it cannot be. and it is an illegally manufactured machine gun.

If you bought an illegal machine gun, i can really only think of a couple options. But i am not an expert on those options. 1, destroy the gun or 2 turn it in with the persons info. but it would be your word against his. so you may wind up in trouble for possession.

and there are no wrong or stupid questions if it involves your freedom if you are wrong.

 

[DOA]

Thanks everyone! I feel my questioned has been answered here and in the "legal.." section.

Funny you mentioned modifying, that is actually what concerns me the most. My lack of knowledge and knowing that if I'm not careful I could find myself buying a custom built, modified, and/or unregistered weapon without my knowledge...until after the fact. I think I'll stick to dealers/online auctions for a good long time.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

1. If I buy a NFA weapon/suppressor/destructive device from anyone in Oregon, other than an FFL Dealer, do I still need to register it and pay the $200 dollar tax fee?
Yes, any Title II (NFA) weapon needs to be transferred to a new owner on a Form 4 and be issued the $200 tax stamp and it has to be transferred through a SOT (aka Class 3) dealer
2. If I buy an NFA weapon/suppressor/DD at a gun show does it still need to be registered and pay $200?
Yes, and you cannot take possession of the weapon until you receive your tax stamp back from the BATFE (also applies to #1)
3. Am I safe buying in a private sale an NFA listed pre-ban/post-ban fully automatic weapon or DD if it was never registered and after the sale I find out that it was not registered prior to my ownership? How do I register it, if I am required to, if it's never been registered? Does this kind of thing happen or do people register it before buying and pay the fee first? If after I have purchased it can I find myself in legal trouble for buying an unregistered NFA gun?
If it's a machinegun and not already registered, it can't be. They closed the registry to them in 1986 to civilians. That's why a M-16 that cost $800 when new will now run you $14,000+. There's a fixed supply thanks to senator Hughes. For destructive devices I think they can still be registered, but again, you have to have the form 4 with tax stamp back before you can possess it. An exaple would be a M203 grenade launcher (good luck finding actual 40mm HE grenades, and they'll each require a $200 tax stamp each)
If you find someone selling any NFA item that isn't "on the books" run away.

 

[waltermitty]

1. If I buy a NFA weapon/suppressor/destructive device from anyone in Oregon, other than an FFL Dealer, do I still need to register it and pay the $200 dollar tax fee?
Yes, any Title II (NFA) weapon needs to be transferred to a new owner on a Form 4 and be issued the $200 tax stamp and it has to be transferred through a SOT (aka Class 3) dealer<.....>

no, a Class 2 or Class 3 SOT is not needed if buyer and seller reside in the same state.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

no, a Class 2 or Class 3 SOT is not needed if buyer and seller reside in the same state.

It can be transferred FTF? That's good to know!

 

[stmcelroy]

It can be transferred FTF? That's good to know!

Yes.

 

[Keane]

It can be transferred FTF? That's good to know!

Yes, STILL ON A FORM 4 though.

Every time a Title 2 item is transferred it needs to go through a Form 3 or 4.

 

[waltermitty]

thanks, Keane

so, stmcelroy...let's say i have an AOW Serbu Super Shorty to sell you. we
both live in WA. I would submit Form 4 to BATF asking them 'mother may I',
in effect, selling to you. once (and only when) i receive approval, you and
I can rendezvous, you pay me for SSS, pay me $5 for Form 4 transfer,
we do a bill of sale, convey to you the Form 4 and the SSS.

this exchange can occur between the 2 of us, and outside Class 2 or 3 or FFL
oversight.

had you live in Oregon, i'd have to Form 4 to my Class 2/3. they would Form 3
it to Class 2/3 in your state. your Class 2/3 would Form 4 it to you.

 

[NoAim]

thanks, Keane

so, stmcelroy...let's say i have an AOW Serbu Super Shorty to sell you. we
both live in WA. I would submit Form 4 to BATF asking them 'mother may I',
in effect, selling to you. once (and only when) i receive approval, you and
I can rendezvous, you pay me for SSS, pay me $5 for Form 4 transfer,
we do a bill of sale, convey to you the Form 4 and the SSS.

this exchange can occur between the 2 of us, and outside Class 2 or 3 or FFL
oversight.

had you live in Oregon, i'd have to Form 4 to my Class 2/3. they would Form 3
it to Class 2/3 in your state. your Class 2/3 would Form 4 it to you.

No. The BUYER submits the Form 4, not the seller.

And, if the FFL is in Oregon, you can usually send it directly to that FFL without going through yours (no legal requirement, but some dealers prefer). It's a 2-stamp process (FFL from you, buyer from FFL).

 

[sweetbeard]

All this stuff sounds pretty Illegal. I think you should take this talk to PM's.

 

[Keane]

No. The BUYER submits the Form 4, not the seller.

And, if the FFL is in Oregon, you can usually send it directly to that FFL without going through yours (no legal requirement, but some dealers prefer). It's a 2-stamp process (FFL from you, buyer from FFL).

NoAim is right, an out-of-state can go directly to a FFL out of state.

 

[waltermitty]

No. The BUYER submits the Form 4, not the seller.

And, if the FFL is in Oregon, you can usually send it directly to that FFL without going through yours (no legal requirement, but some dealers prefer). It's a 2-stamp process (FFL from you, buyer from FFL).

argh you're correct, of course. amazing how much things look better when you
don't overtype under sudafed. thanks for jumping in noaim and keane

 

[waltermitty]

All this stuff sounds pretty Illegal. I think you should take this talk to PM's.

i dont know how you can possibly say this when one is following BATF
procedures. you must be reading this with an mindset that it's some
circumvention of procedures.

if you call, write or view BATF web site/FAQs, it states exactly that

 

[NoAim]

i dont know how you can possibly say this when one is following BATF
procedures. you must be reading this with an mindset that it's some
circumvention of procedures.

if you call, write or view BATF web site/FAQs, it states exactly that

Don't mind the troll.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

All this stuff sounds pretty Illegal. I think you should take this talk to PM's.

This type of information needs to be out in the public since you practically have to be a lawyer to comprehend and jump through all the ATF's hoops. Maybe, someday, we'll understand them all.
Nobody is asking about anything illegal, they are asking how to do this LEGALLY and avoid getting their door kicked in, wife miscarry, pet stomped to death, etc.
We are the good guys.

 

[iamme]

All this stuff sounds pretty Illegal. I think you should take this talk to PM's.

This type of information needs to be out in the public since you practically have to be a lawyer to comprehend and jump through all the ATF's hoops. Maybe, someday, we'll understand them all.
Nobody is asking about anything illegal, they are asking how to do this LEGALLY and avoid getting their door kicked in, wife miscarry, pet stomped to death, etc.
We are the good guys.

Oh the ironing. Kinda funny.

 

[sweetbeard]

I don't get it.. who needs cop killer silencers anyway.. seems pretty scetch to me,.

 

[Keane]

I don't get it.. who needs cop killer silencers anyway.. seems pretty scetch to me,.

Who DOESN'T need them?