Civility and Discipline

[Boats]

Those rushing noises are the points flying over your head.

More the hissing of a bunch of snakes who'd sell out the 2A for lot of less essential "issues."

Why do you take umbrage at being called ineffective? It's your reality.

You seem to think the "points" are that we on the right shouldn't alienate you or the sheeple because we need your "support."

I counter your "points" with what should be self-evident to "liberal gun owners" by now: Your support isn't worth a warm bucket of spit.

 

[Boats]

My problem with saying that "you can't be a 2nd Amendment supporter if you vote for liberals" is that we each probably have a lot of issues that we have opinions on, gun rights being one of them. I think it would be awesome for a candidate that exactly matches my personal beliefs on every issue to make it into the mainstream political scene, but that simply isn't the case.

If a person believes strongly in free access to firearms, but also believes strongly that gays should be able to marry whoever they want, health care should be readily accessible by all american citizens, and women should be able to do what they want with their reproductive organs, then that person has a tough choice to make on who to vote for.

If the vote is the hard part, why isn't organizing and influencing your complicated candidates to be against infringing upon the 2A not the easy part?

I'd say because your support of the 2A is skin deep. You already demonstrated that in the "I will not comply" thread. You condone being enslaved.

 

[Bob D]

More the hissing of a bunch of snakes who'd sell out the 2A for lot of less essential "issues."

Why do you take umbrage at being called ineffective? It's your reality.

You seem to think the "points" are that we on the right shouldn't alienate you or the sheeple because we need your "support."

I counter your "points" with what should be self-evident to "liberal gun owners" by now: Your support isn't worth a warm bucket of spit.

I suppose to a paranoid-schizophrenic who believes that a high-capacity magazine ban is just the first step in a huge plan by "the government" to take all our rights away and leave us poor and defenseless on the street (Tell me again what "the government" gets out of this again?) the support of liberal gun owners isn't worth much.
But then again whose support is, when you're living in a fantasy world populated by evil sentient robots, zombie hordes, and conspiracies that for some reason center around your largely irrelevant personal rights.

 

[Bob D]

If the vote is the hard part, why isn't organizing and influencing your complicated candidates to be against infringing upon the 2A not the easy part?

I'd say because your support of the 2A is skin deep. You already demonstrated that in the "I will not comply" thread. You condone being enslaved.

I definitely condone slavery over death, yes. However, I do not believe that giving up my firearms will cause me to become enslaved. I've been to Europe several times, and have many associates and friends in many different countries with many different laws regarding firearms. None of them feel enslaved, or live as if they are enslaved, or seem enslaved.

I very much appreciate our 2nd amendment, and have supported it with my vote, my presence at demonstrations, and most importantly my pocketbook, but I am nowhere near so delusional as to think that our society would come crashing down around us without it.

 

[Bob D]

Furthermore, it is ridiculous to think that any U.S. government would ever see it as anything but disastrous to come take our guns away from us.
Any plan to do such would completely fail on Solvency, Inherency, and Funding/Enforcement.

 

[dmancornell]

I definitely condone slavery over death, yes. However, I do not believe that giving up my firearms will cause me to become enslaved. I've been to Europe several times, and have many associates and friends in many different countries with many different laws regarding firearms. None of them feel enslaved, or live as if they are enslaved, or seem enslaved.

I very much appreciate our 2nd amendment, and have supported it with my vote, my presence at demonstrations, and most importantly my pocketbook, but I am nowhere near so delusional as to think that our society would come crashing down around us without it.

Big deal. I grew up in China. Not only do the Chinese people not feel enslaved, many of them rabidly support the regime, sort of like a nationalistic stockholm syndrome.

Most Europeans and Americans pay their protection money to the regime mafioso, cast their pointless votes and will walk away thinking that they have a say in matters. The absurdity of such beliefs is not apparent to them because the Big Lie of manufactured consent has been repeated to them through years of indoctrination in government-run prison-daycare.

You're right that "society" won't collapse if 2A is abolished, but it merely reinforces the ruler-subject relationship between the state and the people, and is a massive step backwards for liberty.

 

[AGCR]

To respond on a couple fronts:
I don't claim the left has been as effective as conservatives in supporting the 2A in recent years. Nevertheless, that support has historically been significant and hopefully will become so again. My point is simply that its not ok to threaten to kill anti-gun people, their spouses or children, no matter how obnoxious their opinions may be. People have cited a few examples of generalized violent statements against the NRA but neither myself or other public gun-rights supporters I know have ever received anything similar on a personal level EXCEPT from the right wing. Denial of this fact doesn't help. It needs to stop because it damages us all.

 

[DireWolf]

More the hissing of a bunch of snakes who'd sell out the 2A for lot of less essential "issues."

Why do you take umbrage at being called ineffective? It's your reality.

You seem to think the "points" are that we on the right shouldn't alienate you or the sheeple because we need your "support."

I counter your "points" with what should be self-evident to "liberal gun owners" by now: Your support isn't worth a warm bucket of spit.

You have no clue what my "reality" is. That's the point.

I could care less whether you "think" you are alienating me. That's the point.

Your internet bravado is worth less than a warm bucket of spit, but based on your posts - that is all you have to offer. That's the point.

 

[Bob D]

What if... and it's a big what-if... What if the gun control debate isn't being used to control the left... what if it's being used to control the right?

What if those in power know how completely fixated the republican core is on this issue, and they are using that infatuation to their advantage?

Wouldn't they be fools not to?

What if you wind up overlooking your other liberties being walked away from you because you're so preoccupied with your precious gun rights?

 

[dmancornell]

What if you wind up overlooking your other liberties being walked away from you because you're so preoccupied with your precious gun rights?

All they need is to learn to hate the state and become libertarian.

 

[Bob D]

All they need is to learn to hate the state and become libertarian.

Yes, become a libertarian, just like me!

 

[Boats]

You aren't a libertarian or your personal autonomy would head your list of concerns over comfort and safety. You lack any convictions save for a predetermined plan to become a lackey if necessary.

 

[Boats]

What if... and it's a big what-if... What if the gun control debate isn't being used to control the left... what if it's being used to control the right?

What if those in power know how completely fixated the republican core is on this issue, and they are using that infatuation to their advantage?

Wouldn't they be fools not to?

What if you wind up overlooking your other liberties being walked away from you because you're so preoccupied with your precious gun rights?

You have it all figured out. Poking a hornet nest is a grand political strategy, especially when liberal senators in red states is a problem in the coming midterms. A master stroke frankly.

The real issue here is you lefty 2A supports want status and recognition for things you have neither achieved nor stopped. Why am I not surprised? You are leftists after all. Participation ribbons and orange slices for everyone!

 

[Boats]

You have no clue what my "reality" is. That's the point.

I could care less whether you "think" you are alienating me. That's the point.

Your internet bravado is worth less than a warm bucket of spit, but based on your posts - that is all you have to offer. That's the point.

You offer nothing at all but touchy feely BS that everyone has smelled before. Even internet bravado from the right has done more for the 2A than any lefty "supporter" has ever accomplished.

 

[Bob D]

You aren't a libertarian or your personal autonomy would head your list of concerns over comfort and safety. You lack any convictions save for a predetermined plan to become a lackey if necessary.

Ok there guy, looks like you have me figured out.
or not at all.

If becoming a "lackey" is the only avenue I have through which to keep my life, and seeing as how personal autonomy first requires one to be a living person, I'll certainly take it. Since you'll be dead then, having stood up for your rights and subsequently been cut down for them, It will be up to me and the other rational people who swallowed their pride in favor of survival to regain the rights you so valiantly died for.

Pragmatism is the first reason I am a Libertarian.

 

[Boats]

To respond on a couple fronts:
I don't claim the left has been as effective as conservatives in supporting the 2A in recent years. Nevertheless, that support has historically been significant and hopefully will become so again. My point is simply that its not ok to threaten to kill anti-gun people, their spouses or children, no matter how obnoxious their opinions may be. People have cited a few examples of generalized violent statements against the NRA but neither myself or other public gun-rights supporters I know have ever received anything similar on a personal level EXCEPT from the right wing. Denial of this fact doesn't help. It needs to stop because it damages us all.

You can quit beating up the straw man now. No one here has been advocating death threats or being menacing to anyone.

It strikes me that you lefty "2A supporters" are really put out because we on the right don't believe in your sincerity because we generally think you'd be the first to sell us out if we relied upon your brand of "help."

 

[Boats]

Ok there guy, looks like you have me figured out.
or not at all.

If becoming a "lackey" is the only avenue I have through which to keep my life, and seeing as how personal autonomy first requires one to be a living person, I'll certainly take it. Since you'll be dead then, having stood up for your rights and subsequently been cut down for them, It will be up to me and the other rational people who swallowed their pride in favor of survival to regain the rights you so valiantly died for.

Pragmatism is the first reason I am a Libertarian.

You are truly ridiculous. Not everyone who stands up to tyranny gets cut down. It's easy to see why you'd think that since you'd never even stand up and risk it.

Besides, your meekness is no guarantee of yours or your family's survival. History demonstrates over and over, that the sheep have gotten slaughtered just the same as if they had fought and lost.

You overestimate your own value as a "survivor."

 

[katsnatchfever]

AGCR you said it yourself. YOU receive death threats ONLY from the right wing. So the right wing are the evil terrorists just like West Point suggests right? Couldn't just be a moron threatening you? Do you have them fill out a questionnaire on their voting preferences?

So now conservatives are responsible for all the threats. Okay, got it. We'll claim responsibility for the debt, the war that Hillary pretends she didn't vote for, and starting the holocaust. Left wing gets to claim the moon landing and all the Olympic medals. Does this sound accurate to you?

 

[Boats]

You can't fight, literally or figuratively, alongside "allies" who will cut and run at the first actual moment of trouble. We have already seen a whole raft of them explicitly or implicitly declaring themselves surrender monkeys in the face of the state's bared teeth. The government doesn't even need to threaten them with bodily harm or imprisonment, they're ready to comply with each step towards totalitarianism.

 

[Bob D]

You are truly ridiculous. Not everyone who stands up to tyranny gets cut down. It's easy to see why you'd think that since you'd never even stand up and risk it.

Besides, your meekness is no guarantee of yours or your family's survival. History demonstrates over and over, that the sheep have gotten slaughtered just the same as if they had fought and lost.

I've said here only that I will surrender my firearms if necessary. If the opposite is necessary, that's what I'll do.

You truly misunderstand me. Your inferences and assumptions are wrong. If you look only at what I have actually said, you will see no meekness.

Reason and Critical Thinking are not prevalent among hard-core 2A supporters. Would that they were.