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Civilians now responsible for police ND's in PA

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by dmancornell, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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  2. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    They refuse to accept personal responsibility & always seek to label another person a criminal, thinking that'll divert attention away from their own actions.
     
  3. jakk586

    jakk586 Astoria, Or Active Member

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    [quote/]A Pennsylvania man was*charged*with reckless endangerment, assault, endangering the welfare of a child and illegal possession of a firearm

    Police said Lijewski was carrying a loaded shotgun around his home in the 5100 block of Elmwood Drive when his girlfriend called 911.

    Lijewski answered the door but refused orders to show both hands.[quote/]

    If you're going to link to a story lets post up as much info as possible, not cherry pick bits and pieces and try to paint a story so it plays well to a home crowd. Looks like police were responding to a 911 call. Possible domestic call with an armed man. Failed to comply with a lawful order to show his hands. Doesn't look like they bared in for no reason. As for him being charged for the ND, at least one of the charges against him are almost certainly a felony and any death or injury resulting in the commission of a felony means he gets charged.
     
  4. Bushman

    Bushman Auburn, WA Well-Known Member

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    What charge against him is a felony? The assault that he was charged with after the cops shot each other? lol
     
  5. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    Here's a detail you missed:

    LOL @ lawful order to show his hands, implying that justifies their illegal action of charging into the house which directly resulted in the ND. News at 11, refusing to show your hands to the chekists is now a felony. :rolleyes:
     
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  6. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    Where was the warrant for the foot and shoulder in the door? Why was the civilians firearm "illegal"? Was it only rendered illegal by the commission of the "assault" and other crimes of the officer?

    If we are required to show our hands or be searched while in our homes without a warrant, that is news to me. And no, it doesn't matter that the cops were called to the home. Anyone can make a phone call claiming that something is happening in any home.

    I have never heard of a loaded gun in the home being cause for warrant-less search of the home. Nowhere in that artical does it state that the man threatened the woman, only that he was carrying a loaded shotgun. The threat was so little that the "endangered" woman called back to say that the gun was now unloaded and no police were needed. Is police supervision required for the loading and unloading of a firearm? People really need to move away from the idea that the police and the government are the owners of everything in this country and that all We The People do is borrow it. Once again, are we free, or not? Kip.
     
  7. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    Lol, so afraid to say "sorry i shot you in the back". Gotta blame someone for their own stupidity.kinda like if those women wouldn't drive around in a different make & different color of truck than dorners, they never would of been shot.
     
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  8. Paravani

    Paravani ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! New Member

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    If we're going to "Monday-morning-quarterback" the incident, let's at least take a look at the game!

    Sounds to me like an accidental discharge while trying to bust the door down.

    Idiots.

    -- Paravani
     
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  9. Oklahomie

    Oklahomie Marysville Active Member

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    Sorry dude no accidental discharge. The was negligent.
     
  10. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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  11. jakk586

    jakk586 Astoria, Or Active Member

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    no the assault, if simple, is most likely a misdemeanor. the endangering the welfare of a child charge and reckless endangerment charge are both felonies. The unlawful possession of a firearm is a second degree crime.


    Endangering the Welfare of Children - 2C:24-4
    Reckless Endangerment - 2C:12-2
    N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5 Unlawful Possession of a Weapon New Jersey | Essex County NJ Criminal Attorney Blog
    The Criminal Justice Process

    I didn't miss it, I dismissed it as irrelevant. The story doesn't say what initiated the 911 call, but once it was made, a wife reporting her husband had a loaded shotgun, the cops were coming to investigate. And yes, a police officer in the process of a criminal investigation generally issues lawful orders, keeping ones hands visible or showing ones hands being among them.


    I don't know why the suspects shotgun was illegal for him to possess. Cops are civilians too. LEOs don't need a warrant if they have probable cause that a crime has, is or will be taking place. I'm guessing trying to slam the door shut when the officers asked to speak to the 911 caller gave them such cause. Also, the story doesn't make clear if any of the charges are related to the officers ND or not.

    I agree the officer shooting his fellow officer in the back is a major departure from department procedure to say the least. Hopefully he will find himself perusing the wanted ads for a job having less to do with badges and guns and more to do with brooms and mops.

    I'm not a cop basher. It's obvious the OP is. I don't like it when someone tries to use a few hundred word news blurb that lacks any details to draw conclusions to support their position. I don't really care about cops for better or worse, but i like the truth. Facts are good too. To malign a cop by cherry picking some facts from a poorly written news article, and then draw conclusions from them to support you're anti-cop fetish is just silly. If you want to bash cops, by all means do. A few of them deserve it, but please, a little less histrioncs, a bit more facts.
     
  12. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    ^

    The cop who fired the negligent discharge is fully responsible for what happened, passing the blame to the homeowner and charging him with assault is what I am objecting to. Charging people with crimes due to associative guilt is one of the most despicable aspects of today's legal system.

    In this particular case, the victim isn't even associated with the cops but he got stuck with the charge anyways. No doubt the cops support this cruel and unusual punishment. You'd be right to call it cop-bashing, because those jerkoffs deserve it.

    The arrogance of police demanding obedience from the people who feed their tax-engorged carcasses is irrelevant to this particular story, but is important to note nonetheless.
     
  13. jakk586

    jakk586 Astoria, Or Active Member

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    Well, I've read several accounts of this now and am still unsure of what he is being charged with.
    Here is the story the blog you linked to cited: Police file charges against Baldwin Borough man in police shooting incident | TribLIVE . It doesn't say that the man is being charged with a crime in relation to the police shooting. Nor does it say the officer responsible will not be charged with a crime or receive any kind of administrative punishment for his actions.

     
  14. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    If the victim is not charged with the actions of the cops, then the main issue is resolved. There is still the pending issue of the police's illegal invasion of the home, but we all know cops are pretty given free rein to violate private property whenever they "believe" there is probable cause (translation: cook up some BS afterwards).
     
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  15. davemata

    davemata Spokane, WA Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget that commission of a felony is for the court to decide.
     
  16. jfw

    jfw Clackamas county Active Member

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  17. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    And the same person who called 911 also told them to go away. That's some epic "community care" taking right there.

    Hey, SCOTUS recently ruled that police dogs can indicate probable cause, maybe all cops should just bring a dog with them and train them to perk up and anything and everything. Magic!
     
  18. jfw

    jfw Clackamas county Active Member

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    Weird, I wonder if people have ever been coerced into calling back and telling dispatch to not send the cops.
     
  19. jfw

    jfw Clackamas county Active Member

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    Hey, SCOTUS recently ruled that police dogs can indicate probable cause, maybe all cops should just bring a dog with them and train them to perk up and anything and everything. Magic!

    I am sure that you read and understood everything that went in conjuction with that ruling...
     
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  20. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    God forbid people actually want the cops to leave them alone, because cops have such a stellar track record of performing "community care". LOL.