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Civil Secession?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Ben Beckerich, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Firstly, this is obviously entirely hypothetical. Academic. I personally wouldn't even want a dissolution, but I know a lot of folks on this board would entertain versions of the notion, so it seems like an interesting question to post.

    What would the next secession attempt look like? Could we do it peacefully this time? Would the current federal government invade seceeding states and force adherence? Or have we progressed beyond such barbarism? Obviously open armed rebellion would be met with force- but that's NOT what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about a vote, and declaration of independence from one or some states, dissolving their membership in the USA. NOT a fringe militant uprising. Think Civil War, not Revolutionary War.

    States take a vote... let's say Oregon, Washington, and Idaho (hypothetical- I realize these three states are not going to band together for anything) democratically vote, by supermajority, to leave the union and each become their own sovereign state. The legislative assemblies of each issue orders, signed by each governor, for all non-resident federal officials and military personnel to leave their respective states. Residents who wish to remain must abandon their posts. They each demand their congressional representatives go to DC and deliver their declarations of independence, signed by each governor. Representatives take said declarations to the House... now what? Does congress hold a vote to recognize? What would be the result? Would the president sign? Would the White House immediately order invasion of rebelling states? Would preparing each state's national guard forces for battle be deterrent to invasion? How many national guard soldiers would stand by their states, and how many would abandon and surrender to the federal government, even before open war?

    In our modern era, could the union be legally, democratically, civilly, dissolved?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  2. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Half the country couldn't secede in 1865, there's no way a few states could do it today. Fed.gov would have to collapse first.

    Keith
     
  3. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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    ..and take us all with them. Looks like they are working pretty hard at it, too. No succession, more likely we will be traded to satisfy debt.

    The only question is do we learn Mandarin or brush up on Spanish?
     
  4. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Like I said, all hypothetical. This is based upon the hypothetical future scenario where the population of a select group of states finds it appropriate to chose secession.
     
  5. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Ok, not to be a grammar Nazi but it is secession, from secede. My theory is a civil secession through voting in representatives who would be in favor of allowing it. Washington is an Initiative state. So gather enough signatures and we vote to change the state constitution or vote out the libs. Let's just call it Initiative 245 for the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments. Now doesn't the will of the people take precedence in our constitutional republic. All this would be to form a more perfect union. Are they going physically attack people for voting???? in the 21st Century???.... I think more and more people are seeing the big brother get too big and too belligerent. No taxation without representation, or vote in term limits. With the internet the major media outlets are becoming marginalized. Grassroots is feasible. What, you aren't voting for us so we are going to arrest you in the 10s of thousands or hundreds of thousands? Write ins still work in some places... how about a flash write in candidate? it would be an interesting academic exercise with some of the brighter constitutional historians and judges. The Tea Party bounced some stodgy folks from both sides of the aisle.
    if I am going to choose a litmus test for a candidate I would vote for and I don't agree with one issue as a rule to decide my vote. These days that one issue would be 2A rights.

    Brutus Out
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Holy FU**... edited. In my defense, you'll notice I DID spell it right in my last post.
     
  7. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Asking permission to secede seems pretty half-assed.

    Unrelated, but my view of finding the correct path is for people to start putting their liberty where there mouth is. Don't go to war, don't shout battle-lies like "From my cold dead hands!" and certainly don't bother protesting.

    Just ignore them. Grow your weed, marry your same sex partner, cut down your barrels and turn out some suppressors. Carry your damn firearm, concealed, and make sure your wife does too. Maybe somewhere in there we can stop worrying about 922r compliance, even.
     
  8. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    This scenario isn't asking permission- it's "declaring" secession, by popular vote.
     
  9. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    "Last edited by Ben Beckerich; Yesterday at 10:18 PM. Reason: urmagurd"

    What the heck is an urmagurd? Secede?. I cast thee out o urmagurder!