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water, rice and beans.... to prep. You dont need to have a self sustained farm to live thru a SHTF situation.

Short term, I agree.

Long term, no I disagree.

I prepare for both, short and long term.

Short term situations (not necessarily SHTF, just a situation where you need to be self-sufficient for a little while) happen all the time. Flooding, wind storms, even something as simple as a foot or two of snow (I've got a couple of inches, and it is nice to know that if the power went out due to a snow laden branch falling on a power line, I have ways to keep warm and cook food without power).

Long term, climate change is happening, despite sheeple denying it. Long term population growth is taking us to a time and place where food, water, arable land and energy will be too expensive and scarce for many people to survive - especially if they live in a dense population center.

That is why I am indeed going to buy land where I and my family can be more self-sufficient than we are now. It won't be easy, and it won't happen overnight, but I am working on it.
 
Rabbits!

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I'm still wondering what your suggested alternative for city people is...

See, the thing is you are implying buying a farm is an alternative. Its not for the vast majority of people. So you are saying "do this" when virtually no one can and when I point that out you are expecting me to come up with a alternative?


First off the idea that the world will come crashing to a standstill and people will be left to fend for themselves is pretty far fetched. There could be situations where you need to take care of your self for an extended period but even then its not likely as long as it would take you to leave the city, go our to this imaginary farm you bought and start trying to produce food.

The reasonable thing to do is grow a garden where you live, have some water purification hardware. Stock up on beans, rice, oatmeal. I live in the city, I have a 1000 gallons of water stored and several thousand pounds of food and enough arms and ammo to outfit my entire block.

And for that matter I have a 40 acre farm in Idaho. I understand what it takes, which is why I am telling you 99% of folks could not make it work.
 
I don't think that's a bad idea to have some land accessible. Folks are right on how much work it is.

I've always thought that the best SHTF solution in Portland/Vancouver is to simply have a small overnight sailboat. In the event of a major food-power disruption (such as an EMP/Carrington solar event/Chinese infrastructure hacking) you could literally be sailing to good hunting and fishing areas after a short walk (I have good moorage 7 miles away) to get to your boat. Assuming 2 major things:

1st) that your boat wasn't "borrowed" before you got there.

2nd) That whatever issues the world is having are not issues at the dams and they are still working normally - as far as water flow goes.
 
Partners are for dancing and bubbleguming! That's it. I'D cut desired land into legal parcels and everyone could buy their own legally defined area and THEN work together. I have a 100+ acre "ranch"/backup property already, Paid cash. Our "partners" bought about the same in close proximity so we can co-op without directly interfering with each other. We are both setting up for self sufficiency with different specialties to offer one another.
 
City folks stay the heck in the city;
we don't need you shutting down your neighbor's farms because you just discovered that manure smells, guns get fired, roosters crow, cows moo, tractors are loud, and field work makes dust...and it all probably starts well before YOU want to wake up.
Now, if you're country folk that's got stuck living in a city for work...by all means come on home.
 
Yeah the logistics of this is pretty tough. It's like a BOB or a gun or anything else for that matter. Just having something is not enough, in this case a farm. You have to have intimate working knowledge of every aspect of the item for it to work for you. Thinking you will learn as you go is not realistic.

As a small example, I gave gardening a go this year. I am not quite a novice as my mom is an avid gardener an I spent hours working in them as a kid. So I started small only two 4x10 beds and a 10x20 piece of ground and a few fruit trees/bushes I planted. Besides the lack of time to weed/water while working full time, here is a list of the problems I encountered (with full access to the grid no less).

Bottom rot took most of my tomatoes
Cabbage worms ruined most of my Brussel sprouts
An unknown ailment killed one of my apple trees
The established apple tree did not produce for some reason
Deer got in somehow and walked in my beds and ate most of my strawberries
Moles
Birds tore up my blueberries
Zucchini was stunted and small

So with that being said, I don't think a retreat that you and some friends go in on and has a large expandable garden spot that could supplement your other food storage is an unreasonable goal as long as you are committed to making it productive before it is life or death. A full fledged farm, forget about it.
 
as if the rigors of sucessful farming wasnt enough, in a survival situation all that home grown food is moot if you havnt prepped it for long term storage...
 
Albin has got it.

I grew up in the country, worked on a couple farms in HS, and am now stuck in PDX with the "bronze handcuffs" (the pay sure isnt good enough to be called gold or even silver, but it pays the bills).

City folks should definitely stay in the city and keep their urban sprawl with them.
 
You don't NEED a farm. A few acres or even one acre and you can do pretty well. We aren't self sufficient but we grow two hundred jars worth of food with a few raised beds and 2 fruit trees. And this is on 1/4 acre as we rent currently.We can another 200 from gleaning or buying local produce cheap. On an acre of decent land you could raise ducks (ducks come highly recommended from an islander biologist I know) or chickens for protein, eggs, a goat or two for milk/cheese and meat if you are raising them. Local deer are like pets so SHTF they'd be option. Farming is a lot of work, we had 80 acres as a kid. My dream property would be no more than 40 acres with 30 in 2nd growth/alder for fire wood, attract a few deer, and 10 acres for goats/sheep/cattle including an acre or two for a garden. Would supply the needs of a family of 4. With planning and skills you could live on 5 acres or less. Well or water a necessity but also a rainwater capture system is a big help. Knowledge is a beautiful thing.
That being said, sure, who wouldn't want 160 acres? But I'd use the extra money I saved on not buying an old dairy farm for spending on supplies and training up my grandkids.....:rolleyes:

Brutus Out
 
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Around these parts down here out 10 miles or so is reasonable, what will nail one each year is taxes. We have a Family Ranch a way outta town and the taxes would feed a South American country for a year. Thats where the hurt is.......! Interesting idea but the taxes has me wondering of a investment like this would last a year or so?
 
Hey, there are lots of reasons this is anywhere from tough to unworkable. I don't dispute it. The worst is that the incentives are wrong (for getting the farm in shape) up until the instant that the earthquake hits. But I still don't see many alternatives, for a long-term problem.

I am within walking distance of Portland, on 10 acres. We have a garden and chickens and fruit trees and so forth. Firewood coming out of my ears. Yet if the big one hit, what good is it all? The neighbors seem reluctant to organize. If a crowd walks up the driveway, am I going to shoot them all? I'd rather not. How do I keep my garden? How do I prevent someone in the woods shooting me and mine?

Every thing I have read about surviving a long term problem like EMP says individual families won't make it; you need several families together to survive. Better to have selected your partners before the event, than trying to do it after...

I actually prefer a small town situation. That might be included in this post. And yes, you don't need 160 acres, or anywhere near that, if the land is productive.

I also understand the arguments for bugging in, and agree with them. I don't know if they are going to work for major events though.

I'D cut desired land into legal parcels and everyone could buy their own legally defined area and THEN work together.

Yes, this is necessary, I now believe, because partners will have different incentives to develop. One might be lazier than the other, or have too many distractions in his life. If the quake hits, one might be in a nice home while his neighbor might end up in a tent. That's the way it should be.

Hey, it's just an idea. If it's not for you, then don't do it!
 
Another option would be to find a struggling farmer who is willing to devote a piece of his land to your RV, or something of that nature. Maybe he's not happy about that (yes, there are always going to be points of friction) but your monetary and maybe physical help might prevent losing his farm to the bank, which is worth something. Even better if you are handy fixing tractors and such. The advantage is that the farm is already established.

I'm not sure how you would find such a person. I did see a craigslist ad once that sounded like the rancher was looking for someone like that.
 
People interested in buying land should be aware of various zoning issues, which may vary depending on location in Orygun.

For example, in Washington county, there are restrictions on lot sizes, putting a house on a farm lot, and so on. I haven't checked lately, but when my family sold our farm, which consisted of two houses and four different acreage plots, you could not build a house on a farm plot unless it brought in $80+K per year in farm based income, which is not easy to do with most plots being less than 100 acres.

If the plot already had a house on it, then great, you could tear that down and build another - unless the house was "historic" (at least one of ours was having been built by a pioneer in the 1800s).

You can not easily subdivide farm or forest plots - until a year or so ago I couldn't even sell a couple of acres to my neighbor, and even now that I can, there are restrictions on how much I can sell to my neighbor, it has to be an adjoining plot (I can't sell my neighbor acreage that would not be adjoined to his plot), I have to maintain a certain percentage of forest to cleared land (with the emphasis on forest) and so on.

I think much of this makes sense - I like that the farming community I now live on the edges of is the almost the same farming community that I grew up in as a kid on the farm, and that the farm my family lived on for four generations is still a farm because of those zoning laws, and that suburbia has not encroached on the farm land, and that a bunch of new houses and apartment buildings don't dot the farm land here and there (there are a few new houses - but those are on forested hills that can't be farmed, and the lots have to be a certain size; at least 5 to 10 acres).

So - know the constraints before you make your plans and buy some acreage with the idea that you will be starting your own little survivalist community.
 
"I don't want to see any more city people living in the country. Please stay where you are.

:cool:"


At the very least learn to put your garbage in the dump instead of alongside of the road........Oh and please stay in your own lane, country roads are very narrow.
 
One of the things I intend to do, that some people "in the city" may be able to do (depending on their plot and house) is adjoin a greenhouse onto the house I am going to build.

I intend to get property with a gentle slope to the south. The house will mostly be single level and the south side of the house will be the front of the house. Along the front of the house I intend to build a greenhouse with triple pane "plastic" panes.

During the winter the greenhouse will insulate and add heat to the house during the day, and during the night the house will radiate heat into the greenhouse. There will be security shutters that come down over the panes during the night, providing security, blackout and insulation.

This way I can continue to grow some food during the winter, and some fruit that won't normally grow in Orygun (lemon, oranges, avocados, etc.).

In the city, you might want to hide such a greenhouse from street view, and/or you may wish to have the panes not be completely clear so people can't easily see what you are growing, if anything.
 

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