I'm not an advocate of getting a mountain redoubt in Harney County. The entire Willamette and Tualatin valleys are surrounded by small farms of the subsistence variety. I once had a 90-acre farm in a little valley north of Sheridan, used to be a dairy farm but now lying fallow - still kicking myself for getting rid of it. Anyway here's the point. People are usually in the cities because that's where the jobs are. Jobs usually mean you have money (more than rural folks anyway). Going together with some folks means you have enough accumulated to buy some little farm 30 miles out of the city. It's not too hard to go 30 miles even in the worst of conditions, and being on a subsistence farm with your buds is probably a lot better than being in a city when things go to Hell. Anyway it is good to have options! It also gives you a place to hang out before SHTF. Go shooting, cut some firewood, build a yurt or little shed, restore a beater truck, have fun. I'm not talking a high maintenance place. You want something where you won't feel guilty if you don't get out there that often. This idea is so obvious I wonder why more city folks don't get together and give it a try. Maybe 4 or 5 couples should be ideal. Yes there can be conflicts, but I have some advice on avoiding that if anyone is interested.