Citizens Committee for the RKBA trying to compromise on hb1588

[duane black]

These are the sort of the stats that we need to take to the gun grabbers in Olympia

Yes sir, surprised the HELL out of me. What is that phrase Texans always blab about ? Don't mess with Texas ?

Hell boys, don't mess with Washington !

( I love Texas guys, even been there a few times )

25,000,000 tx population
524,000 ccw permits in texas per legallyarmed.com ( I would love a better reference, share one if you have it )
460,000 ccw permits in texas per http://www.politifact.com ( feb. 2011 interview with state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio, )


7,000,000 wa population
378,000 cpl permits in wa per ( our own Dave Workman via a examiner article ) As I said earlier, I bet this has increased. Clark County had a line out the door per a article I read after the Town Center shooting.

Have I told you how much I love WA ? We are a bunch of gun toting mother bubblegums.

 

[Caveman Jim]

No fricking compromise!!! We, the law abiding gun owners are not the criminals which need to be penalized for their wrong doing!!!
Why is it always like this, penalize the masses who abide by the present laws, can't politicians get this??? They must be mentally challenged & need to be on a crazy registry, not us!!!

 

[kumabear17]

Mr Workman, you asked me the wuestion and this is the first time I have had a chance today to respond.
Just as the Republicans allowed the Democrats to define the issues of the last debacle of an election, we – the gun owning community – have allowed the Liberal Leftist of the Democratic party to define the issues. Why? Most obviously the Left controls the media, but even Fox news, when the try to help, make ignorant comments. Judge Jeanine Pirro couldn't define what comes out of a shotgun as pellets as an example. Maybe Gottlieb and people at that level are trying to reach people like the Judge, and Eric Bolling on the Five is another, so they can gain some facts. However I have seen no evidence of it.
Years ago we allowed the Left to develop the phrase "Assault Rifle" for "AR". We knew it was wrong, but to this day we, ourselves, use words like, "...stop the assault weapon ban..." and the "...last AWB..." didn't some crime. We are getting better as using phrase such as "...a ban on semiautomatic rifles with cosmetic changes..." not very catchy, but better then buying into terms of the Left. How many articles have you written, or Gottlieb, or the NRA pointing out the issue isn't "large capacity magazine", but "standard magazines holding 30 rounds". I'm just an ignorant old retired Harley riding gun owner. I write my letters and once and a while a newspaper will publish something I send which hopefully isn't to inarticulate. Once and a while a Legislator will even respond, sometimes a Democrat like Mark Mullet. I don't float in those circles so on a day to day bases I can only try to talk somewhat unemotionally to the sheeple drones I work out with at the community center or where ever. When the Issaquah Safeway pilled all the gun magazines the day after Sandy Hook, I both wrote and called the head office. They were back two days later with overstock.
My point is what do you want us to do" You see the other side organizing. We only see it when the poop falls on our heads. I don't think you have ever seen as many gun owners write letters as this time around. Ruger reports over 5 million and that's even when we know every Democrat from our State ignores us. Why isn't the NRA adding people to the e-mail distribution like Tom Coburn, the Republican from OK supporting Schumer on background checks? Why aren't you and the NRA working to organize some communication here in Washington to that RINO, Mike Hope. I acknowledge you can't do everything and can't do it alone. I guess we have all sat on our butt since the last ban expired and never expected "Zero" to get re-elected or McKenna to loose. By nature many of us are loaners and we need some inspired leadership – as does the Republican Party – to energize us. I don't see it anywhere.
I acknowledge we may loose. We may face background checks or worse. I have never been good at backing down and have had my share of bloody noses because of it. I understand this time it may be worse and it bothers me when the people I look to to help organize our resistance just infer things like, "...it to tough, the bad guys are beating us and maybe we should just let them do what they want...". Bull Crap!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

It's as simple for me as this:

You elitists have taken FAR too much already. I am willing to do whatever is required to restore my LOST liberties and to save the remaining liberties as is required. I have only so many remaining years to enjoy, how about you, gun banners? Is it worth the cost? Because my freedom IS

 

[mortar maggot]

Let's assume that Gottlieb convinces the STATE to remove all the record keeping of transfers and CPL holders everything that Gottlieb is asking for.

What good will it do if the feds pass a UBC law?

Not a darn thing!!!!

Gottlieb has worked for a lot of progun things over the years but I feel he is wrong on this one.

 

[James 61]

Ive finally got some down time from school and went and read the current wording of HB 1588. There is no language that exempts family transfers which I believe would require a background check to be done in the case of inheritance and it still requires that the ATF form 4473 be filled out and the buyers information recorded for holders of a CHL. Also no where did I find language that would remove the current hand gun registry. I know I came out in support of the bill but as it currently reads I am not in support of it. In order to get my support the language regarding the abolishment of the registry needs to be added, the exemption for family needs to be added and the requirement to fill out the form and record information needs to be removed. The paperwork exemption needs to apply to both the CHL and family transfers.

 

[8ball]

It was reported in the Seattle Times this week that this deal is dead, because LEO objected to destroying the existing state database.

<broken link removed>

I think Gottlieb was probably right. Asking for checks that exempted gun show, CPL and family transfers in exchange for the state shutting down their database would have been a reasonable trade off.

As much as I'd like to say no compromises, I don't know how realistic that it is in WA given the political landscape.

Now they are moving on with the bill, but without Gottlieb's support.

 

[Dave Workman]

Mr Workman, you asked me the wuestion and this is the first time I have had a chance today to respond.
Just as the Republicans allowed the Democrats to define the issues of the last debacle of an election, we &#8211; the gun owning community &#8211; have allowed the Liberal Leftist of the Democratic party to define the issues. Why? Most obviously the Left controls the media, but even Fox news, when the try to help, make ignorant comments. Judge Jeanine Pirro couldn't define what comes out of a shotgun as pellets as an example. Maybe Gottlieb and people at that level are trying to reach people like the Judge, and Eric Bolling on the Five is another, so they can gain some facts. However I have seen no evidence of it.
Years ago we allowed the Left to develop the phrase "Assault Rifle" for "AR". We knew it was wrong, but to this day we, ourselves, use words like, "...stop the assault weapon ban..." and the "...last AWB..." didn't some crime. We are getting better as using phrase such as "...a ban on semiautomatic rifles with cosmetic changes..." not very catchy, but better then buying into terms of the Left. How many articles have you written, or Gottlieb, or the NRA pointing out the issue isn't "large capacity magazine", but "standard magazines holding 30 rounds". I'm just an ignorant old retired Harley riding gun owner. I write my letters and once and a while a newspaper will publish something I send which hopefully isn't to inarticulate. Once and a while a Legislator will even respond, sometimes a Democrat like Mark Mullet. I don't float in those circles so on a day to day bases I can only try to talk somewhat unemotionally to the sheeple drones I work out with at the community center or where ever. When the Issaquah Safeway pilled all the gun magazines the day after Sandy Hook, I both wrote and called the head office. They were back two days later with overstock.
My point is what do you want us to do" You see the other side organizing. We only see it when the poop falls on our heads. I don't think you have ever seen as many gun owners write letters as this time around. Ruger reports over 5 million and that's even when we know every Democrat from our State ignores us. Why isn't the NRA adding people to the e-mail distribution like Tom Coburn, the Republican from OK supporting Schumer on background checks? Why aren't you and the NRA working to organize some communication here in Washington to that RINO, Mike Hope. I acknowledge you can't do everything and can't do it alone. I guess we have all sat on our butt since the last ban expired and never expected "Zero" to get re-elected or McKenna to loose. By nature many of us are loaners and we need some inspired leadership &#8211; as does the Republican Party &#8211; to energize us. I don't see it anywhere.
I acknowledge we may loose. We may face background checks or worse. I have never been good at backing down and have had my share of bloody noses because of it. I understand this time it may be worse and it bothers me when the people I look to to help organize our resistance just infer things like, "...it to tough, the bad guys are beating us and maybe we should just let them do what they want...". Bull Crap!

Well, I finally found this post after combing through all the different subjects. I got your PM.

What do I want you to do?

First, don't believe for a heartbeat that anything you read on this forum or any other forum represents public reality. We talk amongst one another, even argue, but we represent only a segment of the population and believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there who disagree with us and they have the media covering their backs and they get way too much political help from people in our camp...including members right here on this forum...who help elect the rats who consistently vote against our gun rights.

It is appalling how many people here don't get that. I'm no fan of either political party, but I'm intelligent enough to realize that one of those parties consistently elevates to its leadership the kind of wingnuts who consistently try to strip our gun rights away from us, while the other party doesn't. The way to put an end to this is two-fold:
Put the "other" party in the majority for a couple of terms, and then elect people to replace them who are even more attentive to our special interest. Understand that you will never find the "perfect" candidate. He / She doesn't exist unless you run, yourself, and then you'll have thousands of other people calling you names and voting against you.

The next thing I want you to do is become familiar with your state rep and state senator on a first-name basis. Be polite, be reasoned and have your facts straight when you talk to that person.

Next, understand that one person's "No compromise" is another person's "treason." Don't be so quick to throw those terms around because it closes your ear canals and you don't listen,and going through life as a self-imposed deaf person accomplishes nothing.

LISTEN to the other side and understand what they're saying. You don't have to agree with it or like it, but you do need to know and understand it.

A lot of people on the other side of this issue see me as "reasonable." It's not because I agree with them, but because I'll at least sit down at a table and hear what they have to say politely before telling them they're bat$#!t crazy. It's a gift, as Selleck might say.

I want you to learn the art of give and take in a political sense. Invariably in the past, the other side has come to us and said "We want this and this and this...and you get peace of mind." Ken Schram did that to me one time over a drink last year and I pretty much told him to bite my shorts, that doesn't work. But we're pals and he understood that when I called BS on the notion, and then told him gun owners need to get something in return for even considering giving any more ground.

And that brings us around to Gottlieb and the background checks. James 61 has this one figured out pretty well. Read his post. Then read it again.

The other side threw this bill out there. Gottlieb testified against it, called it crackers, so did the NRA. I was standing there when it happened. But when one of the sponsors approached him to chat, he didn't tell the guy to go F--- himself, he listened and then, completely on the fly, threw out some alternatives/options.

Contrary to what some people here believed, he wasn't compromising on anything. He was, for the first time, putting the shoe on the other foot...giving the other side a challenge to "compromise." Consider giving up something valuable in order to get something they wanted, or, in reality, something that "looked" like something they wanted. (See James 61's post..) That's never been the strategy before and it stunned them. But they started talking. That's what politics is all about.

In the process, Gottlieb did something that even the newspapers didn't expect. He came across as "reasonable." That may not square with some people, but it is HUGE. It puts a "reasonable" face on a group of people that a lot of folks in Olympia have always thought to be some hick with a bushy beard that has chewing tobacco stains on it; a guy who wears bib overalls and dirty T-shirts and isn't too swift on the uptake, and who drives a 4X4, starves his kids, hates his wife and talks to his guns, and listens when they talk back.

You win nothing by eating your own. You get noticed when you eat your own, and not in a good way. If you think the other side doesn't read these forums, you're nuts. When we start accusing a guy like Gottlieb &#8212; the guy who beat Seattle, the guy who beat Chicago, the guy who beat San Francisco on his own once and then again with the NRA and others &#8212; of being a traitor, the other side says, "Why do we need to listen to this guy, his own people don't stand with him?"

WHERE did you get the idea that gun people aren't communicating with Mike Hope and trying to educate him? Who told you that? What moron gave you the impression he wasn't listening?

After all, Hope has been willing to drop the pistol registry as part of the background check legislation. Where do you think he got that idea? Didn't just fall out of the sky. He got it from that chat with Gottlieb.

None of this is about "backing down." It's about playing smart politics. It's about getting something back. It's about learning to get along with people instead of alienating them and forcing them to hate you...or forcing them to like you when they already hated you.

And this has worn me out

 

[Dave Workman]

Background check breakdown, local and federal

Days after it appeared that a proposed expansion of the background check had hit a major speed bump in Olympia, a similar proposal before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee has also run into trouble as Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) has refused to make a deal on the measure because it contains a record-keeping provision.

<broken link removed>