church/school security

[91558]

What's everyone's thoughts on adding a section for church/school security? Training info ect.

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[ZA_Survivalist]

Get your community involved.
Try to find like minded parents, try to find like minded church goers.
Schools have policies in place, no parent should go in guns blazing because you'll wind up shot by leos.. beyond that.. by the time you hear of a shooting at a school, it'll be on lock down and swarmed with cops.
So unless you work at the school or are perhaps talking about after school activities or sporting events.. a basic CHL and situational awareness is the best you've got.

Churches are soft targets.. 2-3 CHL carriers can drastically change that. HOWEVER, situational awareness falls onto the guy wanting to watch over the flock. Most churches only have the front door open.. Id simply maintain situational awareness of the front door, perhaps seat in a position to best maintain an eye and act on said front door.. go from there. Best you can really do.

What I would have which will literally save lives is first aid training and kits: Blood loss prevention kits, disinfectant and tourniquet items in bulk. Everyone thinks they are pointless until a wound needs to be plugged long enough for EMT's to get there and stabilize. These items can also aid anyone in need if there is a vehicle/ personal accident outside a school or church.. because that is more likely to happen than a shooting. Just my .02¢

 

[91558]

Get your community involved.
Try to find like minded parents, try to find like minded church goers.
Schools have policies in place, no parent should go in guns blazing because you'll wind up shot by leos.. beyond that.. by the time you hear of a shooting at a school, it'll be on lock down and swarmed with cops.
So unless you work at the school or are perhaps talking about after school activities or sporting events.. a basic CHL and situational awareness is the best you've got.

Churches are soft targets.. 2-3 CHL carriers can drastically change that. HOWEVER, situational awareness falls onto the guy wanting to watch over the flock. Most churches only have the front door open.. Id simply maintain situational awareness of the front door, perhaps seat in a position to best maintain an eye and act on said front door.. go from there. Best you can really do.

What I would have which will literally save lives is first aid training and kits: Blood loss prevention kits, disinfectant and tourniquet items in bulk. Everyone thinks they are pointless until a wound needs to be plugged long enough for EMT's to get there and stabilize. These items can also aid anyone in need if there is a vehicle/ personal accident outside a school or church.. because that is more likely to happen than a shooting. Just my .02¢

Thank you for your response. Those in the congregation who are ""carrying" actually concern me alot because I have no idea how much training they actually have and I could very well find myself between them and the bad guy.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I would simply suggest connecting with them. Every church will be different.. when I used to attend church people were very opposed to that idea of self defense and would rather be taken advantage of by people seeking to do harm to others that to act in a proactive, prepared way. If your church has people who are defensively inclined it would be a good opportunity to perhaps connect with them and plan a course of action that works for your particular church.
If it wasn't for the ammo panic season we're in, I would say a fantastic opportunity would be to have a few individuals from the church that you know happen to engage in the firearms hobby go out for a weekend range day and perhaps see what their skill level was and where their mindset was when it came to being able to act in a safe way.
Even with training, I think it'd be better to have a plan of action with those from the church. The hardest part is finding out who they are.

 

[Saladfarmer]

Here in OR I believe there are certain qualifications for a certified "church security" team. The team I'm a part of has required training monthly. Minimum hours (24) per year range time and an entire "plan" for de-escalation, escape, cover and engagement covering many scenarios.. Pretty much the same as most LEO training. Typical ask, tell, make kinda thing. We have to be certified with the sidearm(s) we will be carrying by doing a set of drills and movement while shooting and getting shots within the required target/silhouette as well.
I know John Lovell, Warrior poet society has an entire course on video for free on the you tube somewhere also. Good info, should still be up there.

 

[91558]

Thank you. This is the kind of thing I am looking for . Was thinking that it would be nice to have a dedicated place for information/ discussion.

 

[308]

ALZIknow is a lot of lead and copper come through the door on Sunday morning at my Church building.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

What's everyone's thoughts on adding a section for church/school security? Training info ect.

I would just start a thread on it. No need for a whole section on it. There are lots of sections already.

 

[Shurpok]

What's everyone's thoughts on adding a section for church/school security? Training info ect.

There was a church shooting in Texas with a ton of lessons learned. Security cameras captured the end. Everyone one praised the security team member who head shot the bad guy to end the engagement. I saw it differently. I say that team failed because the bad guy killed one of them before they ended the threat. Here's how they failed: 1) he was known to the church which had given him supplies but refused to give cash. With 4-5 team members on site, all were inside with no perimeter watch. Someone posted in the vestibule might have seen him hide that shotgun under his overcoat when he got out of his car or notice suspicious activity before he got up the courage to come in side. 2) All these armed men were worshippers not doing security. All in the sanctuary, not in predetermined security posts, just sitting with family. Lines of fire were compromised which caused only one team member to engage and that a head shot. 3) The overcoat was an overlooked red flag. The bad guy walked across the sanctuary without challenge. Any one of the security team could have gotten close enough to prevent that shotgun clearing the overcoat. 4) surprise was complete. The victim saw the shotgun but muffed his draw and was killed before a second team member shot the bad guy. 5) when the team leader confronted the bad guy, none of the other team members backed him up. When I worked access control at Madigan Gate, Ft Lewis, Wa, there were 9 officers on duty. As sergeant of that gate it was my policy that no one dealt with a problem by themselves. With 1000 cars an hour to process through 3 lanes, two glock-armed officers were on islands between each lane and two were on break/reserve in the guard shack and an M-16 armed MP on over watch. When an officer working the lanes saw something, he or she raised their hand and one of the reserves joined the lead and they escorted the vehicle with issues out of traffic (clearing lanes of fire, preventing traffic jams in that lane, and allowing those two officers to focus all of their attention on the problem. The other reserve rotated onto the that island to keep traffic flowing and I remained in the guard shack manning the barrier deployment console and watching the entire operation. This SOP was something I dreamed up which main, East and North gates didn't use. They experienced, fights, weapon discharges, (accidental and intentional), cars running over feet,?gate crashes, and many others. My people always outnumbered the problem child. If there was more than one person in that car, they stayed in that car and an M-16 armed MP maneuvered to provide additional security. My point here is evaluate your physical challenge and plan how to neutralize threats. In a high noise environment, a raised hand got you timely back up. In the church shooting above, an over watch in the vestibule mostly likely would have seen the bad guy coming and simply banged on the sanctuary door to get back up. The confrontation would have taken place away from the packed sanctuary and the security team would have controlled the developing situation, with back up, the bad guy at a disadvantage and clear lines of fire. Maybe he would have recognized he was outnumbered and back down or go down before he took some one with him. That's my two cents worth which used to buy me a boolit.

 

[CRBMoA]

NVM

 

[Shurpok]

Thank you for your response. Those in the congregation who are ""carrying" actually concern me alot because I have no idea how much training they actually have and I could very well find myself between them and the bad guy.

The decision to have security at a church should be made by the congregation. No reason people carrying, concealed or not, shouldn't be background checked, receive training to include but not be limited to marksmanship and safety. An occasional announced drill involving the congregation to test evacuation procedures and educate the congregation is a good idea. Do coordinate with your local LEO. They are a huge resource and they really need to know what and how you are doing things. I wouldn't be surprised if they help you analyze your situation and participate in practice runs.