Chukar

[bbbass]

The dog was in hot pursuit

Yikes!! Broke point on the flush? Uh oh...

It's hard to stop an excited dog, eh? Mine did that a time or two and got a "NO, BAD DOG" for his efforts and some refresher work. One guy I knew for a very short time let his dog get aways out and then gave him a taste of shot.... NOT COOL!!!!!! I didn't hunt with that guy after that.

 

[DeanMk]

My dad would do that if the dogs got too far out, but they'd be so far away it was obvious the shot wasn't going to reach them. We counted on the sound getting their attention and then they'd come back in.
In the case of the story, I think the bird flushed early and kinda surprised the dog, because I don't remember a point and he was a natural pointer. Very good. Left paw would naturally raise a little, tail straight up, neck stretched out, and he would hold it until we motioned in for the flush.
We didn't train him, that was all him....but sometimes the bird gets scared and jumps while the dog is still homing in on him and when that happens, all bets are off.
Usually he would just turn and chase the bird, but that time it was a case of not noticing what was happening until after the shot.
It all happened very quickly.

 

[Devenk89]

We generally go Chukar hunting every fall in Idaho.

My go to firearm for them is a 20 gauge Wingmaster lightweight magnum with an improved cylinder barrel.
Much easier to lug around all day than my 12 gauge!

 

[DeanMk]

Sorta... All the guys would move sideways along the contour of the hill, trying to push the birds into a flush in front of us before they ran up the hill. They rarely held for a pointing dog, which we wound up using like flushers because the birds wouldn't hold for a point, the birds either ran uphill or ran sideways to the hill and flushed out in front. If they ran to the top of the hill, the guy up there could flush them, get his shot(s), typically quartering away like trap, and since they mostly came straight down, probably to get across the river, the rest of us down the line would usually get crossing shots or overhead shots, or even behind you shots. Sometimes the birds at the top would flush across the hill and the guy at the top would get a straight away shot. But only that shooter. BTW, they never let me have the guy on top position... I was the FNG.

But conversely, if we had another line of hunters out front, coming towards us, and were trying to push birds to them from our line of hunters on the hill, the birds flushed downhill before we got in range, never uphill, never straight, never to the other guys. They must have some damn good eyesight!

"It sounds like you may have been standing on the lower part of the hill, so the birds were flushed down towards you." Yes. Walking in the lower part of the line of hunters. Sidehilling. Killing my knees! But it's just how the birds flushed. Downhill. Whenever they flushed out straight from the lower part of the line it was too far away, and much of the time it was because some fellow hunter's dog was out too far and had pushed/spooked/busted the birds. My GSP liked to range out, but in those days I had him well controlled and could keep him in close.

Years later, my then bozz told me he went hunting in the grassy hills rather then on the breaks. His party was two guys, including himself and I think they got shots like you are relating.

Ok, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, Chukar don't flush in any direction except down the hill.
They're not strong fliers. Their wings are short, relative to their bodies. If you ever get to, just watch how they fly.
I saw one, once, jump up and start down the hill with his buddies. He went about 20 feet and went head first into a sage at top speed. Tumbled the rest of the way down the hill.
I've seen'em fly sideways, upside down, backwards. It's really comical.
I swear their wings don't actually provide any lift like a normal bird wing would. I think the bird just jumps in the air and the wings just (attempt to) control how they "fly", on the way down.


Dean

 

[DeanMk]

We generally go Chukar hunting every fall in Idaho.

My go to firearm for them is a 20 gauge Wingmaster lightweight magnum with an improved cylinder barrel.
Much easier to lug around all day than my 12 gauge!

My dad hunted with an 11-48 in 12 ga. for years. In the late 70's he got an 1100 lightweight in 20 ga. with a modified choke.
Never took that 12 out again. I wasn't too impressed with that gun when I was a kid, but these days its one of my faves.
Nice shooter.
I bet your Wingmaster is, too.


Dean

 

[Devenk89]

My dad hunted with an 11-48 in 12 ga. for years. In the late 70's he got an 1100 lightweight in 20 ga. with a modified choke.
Never took that 12 out again. I wasn't too impressed with that gun when I was a kid, but these days its one of my faves.
Nice shooter.
I bet your Wingmaster is, too.


Dean

Thank you! it is, I believe mine is a 1971 model. Almost too pretty to take out upland hunting, but that doesn't stop me!

I wouldn't mind a lightweight 1100, beautiful firearms.

Deven

 

[DeanMk]

I almost got an 870 when I was a teenager.
My dad was getting in the mood for a new gun...not something he did every day.
I didn't have a gun then. Everything I used was a hand-me-down, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Dad's retired USAF, so I had base privileges back then.
I was in the PX and we had been talking about 20 gauges, so I popped over to take a gander at what they had.
There was a 20 gauge 870 with 26" barrel, modified.
It felt good to shoulder, wasn't too heavy, pointed easily.
In those days, 870's weren't too pricey either. I seem to remember a $149 price tag on this one (brand new gun, mind you).
I told my dad and he took a look at it and liked it, too.
He was going to get it for me for Xmas and at the last second, I suddenly fell in love with SxS's.
I think it kinda pissed him off because I think he was hoping I'd hate it after a while and he would then use it.
I ended up with a Stevens 511 in 20 ga. Mod/full, 26" barrels.
Natural pointer for me, so I could shoot it, but I hated carrying it.
Never used it much and sold it to guy I worked with in the late 90's.
Looking back on it, I wish I'd had stuck with the 870. Might still own it.


Dean

 

[bbbass]

@DeanMk

For some weird reason I can't shoot a SxS for schit! The broadness messes me up I guess. I bought a really nice 20ga SKB SxS 26" just because I wanted it, used it a few times, and then put it away. One of the shotties I sold for the divorce along with my SKB 20ga O/U 26" that was my go to upland game shotty. Also my 12ga Charles Daly/Miroku 30" that was my duck/goose gun. And my Ithaca 12ga 26" that was my pheasant gun. I think by then I had already sold my Remington Model 31TC trap gun, it was one of my favs too but I needed some $$ and didn't want to sell a hunting gun.

Dogs... I raised German Shorthaired Pointers. Was president of the local GSP club. We trained dogs together and put on field trials with pigeons we caught. Just love Versatile Hunting Dogs like GSP, Wirehair/Drahthaar, and Vizla, which were the best chukar dogs but needed booties because of soft feet (the rocky land of the breaks would make them bleed). Land, water, point, fetch, they do it all! I started out with a female white/liver standard size GSP and then later bought a compact all liver colored male... he was sleek, and fast. Both those dogs were natural pointers. I did very little wing training with them.

But one of the most important commands to teach was "Whoa". They had to stop on command. Often I would use "Whoa" softly to steady up a point as I went in, or a partner went in, to make the bird flush. Or "Easy" as they got real birdy just before going on point. We would do the flush and the dog was supposed to stay until the command "Fetch" is given, or the bird gets away. No dog chasing birds just for the reason in your story... can't have them getting shot. And chasing birds will lead them to get birds running or flushing too soon, by getting too close to them instead of pointing at proper distance. They have such good noses that they can go on point from as much as 20' for Upland Game Birds like Huns or Chukar, but I like them little closer for pheasant and quail. Damn pheasant always seem to be dug in a bush just under my feet. Have had to kick them out of a bush many times.

Lady:


Shy working and getting birdy:


Lady on point with Shy backing her up:


Informal clays in a canyon outside San Diego with my 31TC:

 

[lucky guy]

Sorta... All the guys would move sideways along the contour of the hill, trying to push the birds into a flush in front of us before they ran up the hill. They rarely held for a pointing dog, which we wound up using like flushers because the birds wouldn't hold for a point, the birds either ran uphill or ran sideways to the hill and flushed out in front. If they ran to the top of the hill, the guy up there could flush them, get his shot(s), typically quartering away like trap, and since they mostly came straight down, probably to get across the river, the rest of us down the line would usually get crossing shots or overhead shots, or even behind you shots. Sometimes the birds at the top would flush across the hill and the guy at the top would get a straight away shot. But only that shooter. BTW, they never let me have the guy on top position... I was the FNG.

But conversely, if we had another line of hunters out front, coming towards us, and were trying to push birds to them from our line of hunters on the hill, the birds flushed downhill before we got in range, never uphill, never straight, never to the other guys. They must have some damn good eyesight!

"It sounds like you may have been standing on the lower part of the hill, so the birds were flushed down towards you." Yes. Walking in the lower part of the line of hunters. Sidehilling. Killing my knees! But it's just how the birds flushed. Downhill. Whenever they flushed out straight from the lower part of the line it was too far away, and much of the time it was because some fellow hunter's dog was out too far and had pushed/spooked/busted the birds. My GSP liked to range out, but in those days I had him well controlled and could keep him in close.

Years later, my then bozz told me he went hunting in the grassy hills rather then on the breaks. His party was two guys, including himself and I think they got shots like you are relating.

 

[lucky guy]

Late in the season after they've been pushed around a lot there's often not much you can do when they're busting wild like that. Sometimes it's the dogs, but chukar will post a sentry on a low rock to alert the covey if anything approaches. You can glass the sentry bird up sometimes and locate a covey that way. It also helps to channel a little bit of Bill Murray and Caddy Shack when you hunt these damned things. At the end of some days you will be wishing you'd brought the C-4.

Another Miroku fan eh? Me too, my chukar gun is a mid-60's Charles Daly/Miroku O/U in fixed IC and Mod. I take a 12 ga pump gun with interchangeable chokes as backup.

About the dogs, I always keep a couple rounds of 00 buck in my pocket and a 6" 22 pistol for porcupines, badgers, and coyotes. I've had coyotes stalking my setter a couple times in the Malheur. I haven't heard of it in the last year or two but once in a while someone loses a dog to a cougar.
It is very harsh country in a lot of ways but it's the best hunting I've ever done. It will be a shame when I age out. So far so good although my setter is just about done, at 13 he's slowing down pretty fast now. I hope he's going to Wy for sharptails on our antelope trip this fall, we'll see.

 

[bbbass]

Their wings are short, relative to their bodies. If you ever get to, just watch how they fly.

Mostly I remember them setting their wings and gliding down the hill. But it's been a long, long time since I was able to trek like that. And no bird dog since 1983.

I often heard chukar while bass fishing Brownlee when I still had a boat. Then I'd see them at the water or not too far from it. Wanted to have a shotgun in the boat to get my revenge but I wasn't that big an outlaw.

 

[lucky guy]

Mostly I remember them setting their wings and gliding down the hill. But it's been a long, long time since I was able to trek like that. And no bird dog since 1983.

I often heard chukar while bass fishing Brownlee when I still had a boat. Then I'd see them at the water or not too far from it. Wanted to have a shotgun in the boat to get my revenge but I wasn't that big an outlaw.

We hunt around Brownlee from a little waterfront campsite on the lake near the Idaho power property on the Oregon side. I think it's called Swede something?

 

[Lakecres]

I picked up a 20 ga 870 express for $270. I'll use this in a few weeks to begin shooting trap each Wednesday morning at TCGC and see how it goes. Should I not like it I'll move to something else and give this away to a family member.

One question; should I use the same loads to practice with that I'll use to hunt with?

 

[lucky guy]

I picked up a 20 ga 870 express for $270. I'll use this in a few weeks to begin shooting trap each Wednesday morning at TCGC and see how it goes. Should I not like it I'll move to something else and give this away to a family member.

One question; should I use the same loads to practice with that I'll use to hunt with?

Not normally but similar velocity would help. 7-1/2's at 1150 - 1250 is a pretty typical practice load. 12-1350 is a typical hunting load. Once you get some practice you'll be able to make small adjustments like that. Main things are a gun that fits, getting the mount correct, and concentrating your eyes (both open) on the leading edge of the target, clay bird or chukar beak. If you learn and do those things for a few hundred rounds on a trap course you will be able to hit birds most anywhere. I'm still working in it.

 

[bbbass]

We hunt around Brownlee from a little waterfront campsite on the lake near the Idaho power property on the Oregon side. I think it's called Swede something?

Swede's Landing... when I had a boat there was a sandy place to put in there. Now I hear there is a huge RV park. I wonder if there is still free camping on the sand at Swede's?

Yes, we used to drive from La Grande, have breakfast and coffee at Richland, then drive down past Swede's... I can't remember how much farther. It's been a long time. But you are very familiar with that particular hunt then. How many in your hunting party typically?

 

[bbbass]

One question; should I use the same loads to practice with that I'll use to hunt with?

I agree with Lucky Guy!

IMO, it won't make much difference, but some difference if you are using hot loads for hunting (high base, high velocity) and target loads for clays.

What you want to get is the feel and swing of the shotgun. Learning not to stop the swing at the pull of the trigger, how to lead, how to hit a dropping bird vs a rising bird, etc. That said, lead can only be learned instinctively on live birds with the loads you use while actually hunting. No worries, you'll get it just fine. Just remember, it's a perishable skill... practice before each season.

 

[bbbass]

You want to hunt down on them.
Then they will flush.

The light comes on!!! Those guys I hunted with... oh my... instead of hunting across we should have been hiking to the top and hunting down. Maybe glassing the top for a sentry bird before hiking up. Okay, it all makes sense to me now!

my chukar gun is a mid-60's Charles Daly/Miroku O/U in fixed IC and Mod.

Sorry for the drift OP, but:

The one I used most was the SKB 20ga O/U 26" with fixed IC and Modified chokes. They weren't really doing much interchangeable chokes way back when granny was kneehigh to a toadstool!

My Miroku 12ga 30" with 3" chambers started out life with fixed full and full chokes. I think it was intended to be a goose gun, which I did use it for a number of times. But I figured I was duck hunting over decoys more than pass shooting, so I had the bottom barrel taken out to modified. Did you ever have one of the trigger leaf springs break... I did. My gunsmith was bummed that it wasn't a coil spring... he actually had to fabricate a part and that gun was out of action for months!

Sigh, I miss those days, miss those dogs, miss those shotties. Got too damn old and broke/broken. My shotty now is a Mossberg 500 combat gun with 18" tube and 7shot magazine. I bought a 28" barrel for it with interchangeable chokes and used it a couple of times to take my Grandson out for quail and pheasant, then with my bozz for pheasant. (That was different... hunting in waders with his two Golden Labs at Ladd Marsh and pushing thru cattails, crossing sloughs and ditches, to get to various weedy patches where the birds hung out, but sometimes they were in the cattails too. I had to quit when I couldn't keep up and my back and feet got too bad.)

 

[bbbass]

I picked up a 20 ga 870 express for $270. I'll use this in a few weeks to begin shooting trap each Wednesday morning at TCGC and see how it goes. Should I not like it I'll move to something else and give this away to a family member.

One question; should I use the same loads to practice with that I'll use to hunt with?

I'm absolutely sure you'll enjoy that 870... they used to be a quality production gun and I hope they still are. The thing you want to focus on first is the length of the stock. I forget the laymen's formula but I think it was something about putting the butt end in the crook of your bent elbow and having your trigger finger land on the trigger... too short a stock and the finger is outside the trigger guard, too long a stock and the finger comes up short of the trigger. I'm tall, so I pretty much either had to add more pad to the butt or use one of the slip-on recoil pads. Of course, there are professional shotgun fitters and most serious gunners, especially overseas (not grubby Americans), buy their shotties custom fit just for them. Fit is that important!!

Somebody correct me if I'm not remembering the above (about fit) right!! There is much more to fitting a shotgun, but most never do more than adjust stock length and for trap shooters maybe comb height. You can also adjust cant/tilt, in or out crook, and grip, but yikes those guys wait a long time for their custom guns to be delivered.

Trap: I advise to start at 16yd trap and then move back to 27yds to get used to shooting at escaping birds at longer distances. It's usually permitted to shoot at dropping clays too, at least at my club/range, so you get some practice shooting under the bird too. IMO modified choke works best for 16yd trap for quicker, more experienced shooters. And full choke works better for 27yd trap and shooters at 16yd that need a bit more time to get on the bird. I'd use full choke starting out at both distances.

 

[DeanMk]

I picked up a 20 ga 870 express for $270. I'll use this in a few weeks to begin shooting trap each Wednesday morning at TCGC and see how it goes. Should I not like it I'll move to something else and give this away to a family member.

One question; should I use the same loads to practice with that I'll use to hunt with?

Most ranges won't let you use hunting loads because they're afraid that some of the shot may actually leave the confines of the range (due to the extra power of the load and the extra weight of the pellets).
Nice thing about 20 ga., The difference in speed between a Rabbit & Squirrel load and a Duck & Pheasant load is usually only about 20 ft/sec.
This allows you to use the less powerful (and less expensive!) Rabbit & Squirrel load filled #8's at the range with no problems and you should still be close enough in gauging the lead on the bird to make it work for the Duck & Pheasant load when hunting.
...now if you decide to hunt with higher powered 3" mag loads when hunting, then the speeds can vary and you may have to make adjustments in the field.


Dean
P.S. Congrats on the new gun, btw. I was just looking at 870's last night. Fine weapon. I almost got one myself, in my younger days. I'm sure it will work out for you, just fine. =)

 

[DeanMk]

Trap: I advise to start at 16yd trap and then move back to 27yds to get used to shooting at escaping birds at longer distances. It's usually permitted to shoot at dropping clays too, at least at my club/range, so you get some practice shooting under the bird too. IMO modified choke works best for 16yd trap for quicker, more experienced shooters. And full choke works better for 27yd trap and shooters that need a bit more time to get on the bird. I'd use full choke starting out at both distances.

Interesting about shooting games.
Most of the shots I took, when I hunted with my dad, was right about 50 feet. Especially true for Pheasant.
50 feet = 16.67 yards....and what's the distance for trap? Yep. =)

Dean