Chuck Schumer tries to capitalize on Trayvon shooting!

[derrickrf]

Let's face it, Zimmerman has done more for the anti-gunners than Schumer could ever accomplish.

 

[Redcap]

Let's face it, Zimmerman has done more for the anti-gunners than Schumer could ever accomplish.

By what...defending himself? As opposed to the slant of the liberal media and hordes of ignorant people that can't see and/or understand facts?

 

[MikeE]

Y
If you shoot someone that is beating the crap out of you, that ISN'T murder.

Isn't there the issue of disparity of force? If a big man is beating the crap out of a woman, lethal force could be justified. If several people are beating one victim, again lethal force could be justified. If someone initiates the use of a weapon, you are justified in using lethal force.

However if two people get into a fight, under 'murky' conditions where one has initiated the conflict by following someone minding their own business, after being told by authorities NOT to take that action, then gets the crap beat out of himself as a result, hard to see how that is legal self-defense.

 

[BroncoFan]

Isn't there the issue of disparity of force? If a big man is beating the crap out of a woman, lethal force could be justified. If several people are beating one victim, again lethal force could be justified. If someone initiates the use of a weapon, you are justified in using lethal force.

However if two people get into a fight, under 'murky' conditions where one has initiated the conflict by following someone minding their own business, after being told by authorities NOT to take that action, then gets the crap beat out of himself as a result, hard to see how that is legal self-defense.

Don't know about Florida law but Oregon law allows a person, even if the initial instigator, to justifiably use force if they have clearly tried by their actions and words to disconnect from the original altercation and the second person persists in using force in the altercation. They key here was what level of force was justified and if Zimmerman was the initiator did he through his words and actions try to disengage.
I'm not rushing to judgment and hope for a thorough and fair investigation. Whatever the outcome it's clear more than one life has been ruined.

 

[derrickrf]

Redcap, whether he is right or not, he stepped in it and it hurts us all. When the facts come out then we will know if it was justified, but the horse is out of the barn ! This puss bit off more than he could chew and panic set in, so if an *** whopping is something you can't absorb, then don't lace em up and strut.

 

[MountainBear]

Isn't there the issue of disparity of force? If a big man is beating the crap out of a woman, lethal force could be justified. If several people are beating one victim, again lethal force could be justified. If someone initiates the use of a weapon, you are justified in using lethal force.

However if two people get into a fight, under 'murky' conditions where one has initiated the conflict by following someone minding their own business, after being told by authorities NOT to take that action, then gets the crap beat out of himself as a result, hard to see how that is legal self-defense.

It would depend on whether or not Zimmerman initiated a physical confrontation when following Martin. There seem to be several versions of the story, at least one of which has Zimmerman returning to his vehicle and being attacked by Martin. While following Martin was seemingly a poor idea, it was probably not criminal. If Zimmerman did initiate the physical confrontation with Martin, the self-defense would be harder to prove.

If Martin was the aggressor, and in fact was in a mount position on Zimmerman, with Zimmerman having a broken nose and Martin slamming his head repeatedly on the concrete, I think it would be reasonable for a person to suspect that he (Zimmerman) could have been in fear for his life. But no one is ever going to know what happened that night. We'll get stories from "witnesses" and Zimmerman, but all the stories/accounts are just someones interpretation of the event.

The bottom line is that there is no way this is going to end well on any end. A young man is dead, that's a tragedy. Another young man has to live with having killed another person. Also sad. Like it or not, some of the public is going to view this as a negative on the concealed carry community. While not on par with the above two items, this also stinks. Race is becoming an issue, as is politics. All in all, this whole situation just sucks.

 

[michaels]

Hi mtn. Bear,

Your right, it is hard to ascertain what happened. Therefore a trial seems to be in order.

Hi Jamie,

I'm sorry, what I meant to say is a pd and da that didnt give this proper, serious attention.

For the sake of brevity, didn't do a Damn thing.

That's my opinion, and you'll have to accept it, or not.

Then I checked with myself. I asked myself, am I outraged because I think the cops didn't give a Damn about the murder of a teenager?

The answer was yes.

So I don't think I was lying. What do you think?

If you shoot someone beating.the crap out of you, you're a coward. (Yes, there are exceptions, I'm talking about this case)

Again, my opinion, which you can accept. Or not. Your choice.

I believe that zimmerman murdered trayvon.

You believe he defended himself.

Looks like there is a difference of opinion.

Don't worry, the cops and the da in Florida are of the same opinion as you.

As far as my opinion?

I read from different sources often.

I am fascinated with different views, it helps me clarify my own views, or even change them.

Thank you.

 

[SargentMac]

What they taught me was that unless the situation is life or death, you're way better off legally if you aren't the one who initiates deadly force. There were no weapons present except Zimmerman's. A one on one fistfight between two people with no obvious mismatch being "life or death" is a really hard sell to a jury.

Let me just get clarification here. The fight, as accepted and explained by the police, ended up with Martin on top of Zimmerman. Martin was holding onto Zimmerman's head and repeatedly striking it upon the ground. Please explain to me how blunt force trauma to the head does not equate to serious bodily harm. If I strike your head into something hard, with enough force, numerous times, can I not kill you?

And for the love of God can we stop calling Trayvon Martin a "kid"? He was a 6'something athlete. He was more physically capable than the majority of "adults". That extra few months until he turned 18 would not have made him magically more capable either physically or mentally.

 

[Norm0931]

If you shoot someone beating.the crap out of you, you're a coward. (Yes, there are exceptions, I'm talking about this case)

Again, my opinion, which you can accept. Or not. Your choice.

This ranks up there with George Bush's "strategery" comment. You have obviously never been in close combat with someone who wants to kill you. Sorry, if someone jumps on top of me, hits me in the face, and starts bashing my head against the concrete. Easiest way to end the situation fastest, point blank shot to the chest. You can talk all day about how he should have overpowered him but, the facts are that a 17 year old 6'3" male that played basketball regularly (athletic) was involved in a physical altercation with a 28 year old 5'10" overweight male. And if I were in his position, I'd be looking at the fastest and easiest way to end the conflict which would involve my sidearm as well.

 

[michaels]

Hi norm,

I won't talk about how z should have physically overpowered t.

What I will talk about is how incredibly stupid the judgement he used was.

See, the thing is, I don't know what happened.

Just like you don't know that z was getting beaten.

We just both have our suspicions.

Perhaps a trial is in order?

 

[Norm0931]

So please explain how, "If you shoot someone beating.the crap out of you, you're a coward," makes any sense whatsoever?

No, if you shoot someone who is beating the crap out of you, you LIVE.

 

[74sporty]

i read the police report that jamie gave and its just forms that are mostly empty except for the scribbled out address and the "person type" and description. in fact it lists travon as the victim. but of course reports are only recorded accounts. someone was doing a looky lou and saw the mix and perhaps the end of the tragedy. but i listened to that audio 911 call zimmerman made. it reveals a whole lot more. he reports to the dispatcher and walks her through him peeping this kid walking through the neighborhood, reports that the kid notices him... and walks away. zimmerman reports to the dispatcher that he's getting away. so he's gonna follow. bad idea. cause the kid has done nothing and in any case your not a cop, so you shouldn't be approaching potential bad guys. and for the record the kid has done nothing. zimmerman says he followed the kid. try to imagined how the kid felt. he's 17 in a maybe not so familiar area and some menacing adult follows you at night? that would put me on edge. the audio cuts out as zimmerman follows the kid. after that is the confrontation and we dont know if zimmerman does catch up to trayvon and confronts him or that he changes his mind and and trayvon does the same thing and turns around to confront zimmerman... but i have my opinions.

im not for the race war or the witch hunt. i think zimmerman made poor decisions that lead to a tragedy. but lets not burn him at the stake and label him a racist murderer. he's probably just a regular guy that put himself in a horrible situation. a very horrible, horrible situation. he needs a really good lawer.

schumer sucks!

 

[74sporty]

This ranks up there with George Bush's "strategery" comment. You have obviously never been in close combat with someone who wants to kill you. Sorry, if someone jumps on top of me, hits me in the face, and starts bashing my head against the concrete. Easiest way to end the situation fastest, point blank shot to the chest. You can talk all day about how he should have overpowered him but, the facts are that a 17 year old 6'3" male that played basketball regularly (athletic) was involved in a physical altercation with a 28 year old 5'10" overweight male. And if I were in his position, I'd be looking at the fastest and easiest way to end the conflict which would involve my sidearm as well.

the kid was 160lbs... at 6'3'' he's pretty scrawny. the 28yr old was not obese. he was heavy set, a sizable man. he looked perfectly capable. and i believe if he started the fight and then pulled a gun afterwards... thats very bad form to say the least. its a street fight... what did he expect? no face shots? want him to count to ten? zimmerman is a man and if he is man enough to pick a fight with a kid then he should have been man enough to take a whoopin.

but my original point was that the match was yes, uneven. only because trayvon was way UNDER zimmermans weight class

 

[Redcap]

the kid was 160lbs... at 6'3'' he's pretty scrawny. the 28yr old was not obese. he was heavy set, a sizable man. he looked perfectly capable. and i believe if he started the fight and then pulled a gun afterwards... thats very bad form to say the least. its a street fight... what did he expect? no face shots? want him to count to ten? zimmerman is a man and if he is man enough to pick a fight with a kid then he should have been man enough to take a whoopin.

but my original point was that the match was yes, uneven. only because trayvon was way UNDER zimmermans weight class

So, because the match was uneven, Zimmerman should risk brain damage or possibly death due to having his head repeatedly smashed against concrete?

 

[Norm0931]

the kid was 160lbs... at 6'3'' he's pretty scrawny. the 28yr old was not obese. he was heavy set, a sizable man. he looked perfectly capable. and i believe if he started the fight and then pulled a gun afterwards... thats very bad form to say the least. its a street fight... what did he expect? no face shots? want him to count to ten? zimmerman is a man and if he is man enough to pick a fight with a kid then he should have been man enough to take a whoopin.

but my original point was that the match was yes, uneven. only because trayvon was way UNDER zimmermans weight class

So if you happen to get in to an altercation with say, a welterweight UFC fighter, you are a not entitled to protect yourself because he is smaller than you?

To go back to your opinion of the events. There is ZERO evidence to support you and the rest of the liberal race card wielding mob's opinion. Zimmerman tells the dispatcher he is getting away and he is CURRENTLY following him. The dispatcher tells him he doesn't need to. Zimmerman says ok. Then silence and here is the strange thing for the apparent "run down" everyone keeps claiming, he CATCHES his breath and slows his breathing. Hard to do while in a foot pursuit. Then silence before he asks the officer who should be there momentarily to call his cell directly to coordinate a meeting location.

So, full well knowing that police could be arriving anytime, Zimmerman quickly decides this is his one chance to take out a black kid. He uses his night vision goggles with heart beating sensing to track the kid down because, well he lost sight of him a minute ago. He finds the kid, walks up and shoots him in the chest. Then punches himself with the kid's hand and falls on the ground. Rolls around in the grass a little and bashes the back of his own head on the ground to create a sense of a fight. Luckily he is able to accomplish all this before the cops arrive.

The truth is a kid who was probably act thuggish, it's a culture for MOST young adults of all races in America thanks to the music industry advocating gang members, drug usage, and murderers as misunderstood outcasts just trying to survive in a society that doesn't understand them. (This stems from the blatant "gangsta rap" all the way to Madonna advocating ecstasy use on her latest album to try to seem cool to what would be her grandchildren's age group) He was milling around in a neighborhood that had be recently the site of a string of burglaries and a homeowner took notice. He followed the kid who, like most kids (criminals or not) runs when they think they might get in trouble even if they haven't done anything. Now from there it's all guesswork because the only two people that will really EVER know what happened that night are Martin and Zimmerman. It's the word of a dead person vs. a live one. Which makes it just an opinion on character, which is meaningless in a courtroom. Unless there is some seriously factual scientific evidence found no one can say beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is lying. Therefore, they can't convict him. THAT'S why they didn't file charges, they knew they couldn't win. It wasn't racially motivated and they just don't care. The facts just aren't there. It could have been John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgeway, Moses Sithole, or Ted Bundy, the facts STILL don't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense. Last time I checked the Constitution specifically stated you needed evidence not emotion to sentence someone for a crime.

 

[WFO]

1: If I'm an armed vigilante hell bent on gunning down innocent black teenagers,I have my gun in my hand when I get out of the truck and I only call the cops after my murderous rampage is over.

2: If you're an innocent introverted black teenager in an unfamiliar neighborhood being followed at night do you take off running for home or turn around and start a fistfight?

3: Who's going to be involved in this "race war"? Blacks vs. Mexicans?

 

[samuelm16]

iOwnTheWorld.com » Blog Archive » Looting in TRIBUTE TO TRAYVON

 

[VW_Factor]

So, because the match was uneven, Zimmerman should risk brain damage or possibly death due to having his head repeatedly smashed against concrete?

After seeing the intake video of Zimmerman, I doubt everything that man said. Said he had a broken nose, and cuts on the back of his head. Unless he healed up on his ride in the back of the police cruiser to intake. He lied about his injuries, what more did he lie about?

Edit : I realize this may be a bit inflammatory to the situation, but facts are facts.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475

 

[Bigfoot]

Yes facts are facts, lets wait for them to come out. You know the police have pictures of him in evidence. But if you want to go by grainy CCTV video..

The media is doing what it always does, telling whatever story that sells the most paper/airtime.

BTW Zimmerman was treated by paramedics before this video.

 

[Steve06]

We do know a few things... Zimmerman was carrying a gun and Trayvon was carrying Skittles. Zimmerman was asked to stay put and he went after Trayvon. The kid is dead and the killer walked, hiding behind the Castle Doctrine. Racist or not he chased the kid down and killed him. He could have stayed in his car like the dispatcher said. Dont bring a gun to a fist fight. Self defense...HA! The kid defended himself with his hands and probably whooped his *** and he was ticked and shot him. Remember who chased who down. Isnt the Castle doctrine supposed to protect people pleading self defense in their own homes, ie their castle??

Someones unarmed son is dead because of a trigger happy cop wannabe. Rep or Dem that plain just sucks.

Why would he follow the direction of the dispatcher? Why would anyone? It is not like they are a Sworn Officer. They are a telephone receptionist with a SOP book. They are not on the scene, they don't know.

This one will end up in Court one way or another. Either Zimmerman will be charged with a crime or Martin's family will go the Civil Lawsuit route.