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Chl

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Mutoman, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Mutoman

    Mutoman North Bend Active Member

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    I'm writing an essay for a college class, my essay will be on the CHL. I am having a difficult time finding any valid reasons to be against citizens legally obtaining their CHL's. In order to supply a "non-biased" argument for this essay, I need to try to obtain some sensible reason against the Concealed Handgun License.

    I'm looking for ideas on this, sensible ones. Any ideas?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Unfortunately for the opposition, I can't think of any negatives that have actually played out in real life. They sure are good at making up 'what if's' on paper though, then trying to pass them off as fact. Fact is I can't think of any downside really, and empirical data shows CHL holders to be some the most law-abiding people in our society today.
     
  3. BUZO71

    BUZO71 Emerald Valley, Oregon New Member

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    LOL, you might have a tough time finding a dissenting opinion on this website. :))
     
  4. Dutchy556

    Dutchy556 Bend, OR Member

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    Yeah, the opposing argument to concealed carry is based solely on emotion and irrationality. You could probably make a stronger argument against cops/feds carrying guns than you could against CHL holders based on statistics concerning negligent discharges, accidental shootings, murders, children gaining access to the firearm, etc.

    I'm trying here, but I can't think of an anti-carry argument that holds water... it makes some people uncomfortable, they think it's dangerous, "guns kill people", "that's what the police are for"... maybe look at the Brady campaign or a similar groups website and see what kind of crap they're spewing?

    Good luck not getting punished for choosing a topic that will no doubt displease the average professor... If you support gun rights I sure hope you weren't planning on getting an A...
     
  5. Mutoman

    Mutoman North Bend Active Member

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    The problem is that it seems that making people uncomfortable is a serious issue in today's society.

    I appreciate the input.
     
  6. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    welcome to the site Mutoman.

    If you would like to hear the arguments against CHL ownership, you might try going to Starbucks in Bend and asking the patrons.

    I usually don't stereotype, but I think that might be a good place to find the opposition.

    Disclaimer: This was not meant to say Starbucks patrons are all one sided. I'm simply throwing out an idea to help a college student.
     
  7. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Moses Lake, WA Active Member

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    The best reason I can think of against the CHL is Vermont and Alaska. They don't have a permit system necessary to defend you and yours.

    You can use the Brady "reasons" and then shoot them down without actually attacking them, Just relate facts in your portion dealing with the pro side. Make sure each fact specifically and exactly refutes the Brady nonsense.

    Then draw a conclusion from the facts, not the argument.

    Pops
     
  8. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    OK okokkok I think I have one:

    Having people obtain CHL or as we call it here CPL, could be viewed as a violation of an individuals' privacy. Many police departments are tapped into the State's CPL database and dispatchers advise officers that a subject has a CPL during a traffic stop, for example.

    I'm not concerned about the illusion of privacy myself but this might be one point where you could gain a little ground while not being against carrying at the same time.
     
  9. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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    Take a look at this link. (start at the top and read the imbedded links and comments).

    All the "rational" reasons are there.

    BTW, free speech makes some people uncomfortable also. Haven't you noticed?

    Good luck.
     
  10. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Hmmm. You want an argument against concealed carry?

    Do a Google. "Obama on concealed carry"
     
  11. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    Have you ever heard of the waltz vs sagan debate? There is a book called "The Spread Of Nuclear Weapons - A Debate Renewed" by Scott D Sagan and Kenneth N Waltz. Basically Waltz argues more is better while Sagan argues more is worse...

    Here is where I am going with this. Read the Sagan side, he brings up many issues where more nations(could be translated to people) have security the more of a chance there is for a flaw in that security vis a vie if more people have a CHL there is more of a chance that somebody will make a mistake.

    Think of the Soviet union with their nuclear arsenal. With the fall of the Soviet Union it is hard to keep tabs on all the weapons and keep them safe and unfired. There is also little to no training to the new people watching over these weapons. Related back to a CHL if more people get CHLs you could argue that more police officers are needed to make sure the CHL holders abide by the CHL law and don't illegally use weapons or have illegal weapons. Also that with out doing any actual shooting in oregon to obtain a CHL there is a risk of an innocent bystander getting shot by an over zealous trigger finger(or trigger happy nuclear weapons controller in the former U.S.S.R. accidentally sending a missile to the wrong location)

    Granted these aren't the best comparisons but I only spend 5 minutes on this and thought it might help. While to most of you these arguments won't hold water, I think that if argued properly they can :)

    Happy Writings!
     
  12. korntera

    korntera Oregon Member

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    Just happened to stumble upon this... The brady campaigns reasons against CHLS...
    http://www.bradycampaign.org/issues/concealedcarry/

    If you didn't know the brady campaign gave oregon an 18 our of 100 for gun control. They are like the NRA for Anti-Gun Activists.
     
  13. AGCR

    AGCR SE Portland Active Member

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    Interestingly enough, I was invited down to the Portland NPR studio 2 weeks ago for their local morning talk show to discuss concealed carry on air regarding the recent Medford teacher case. The NPR people were friendly and callers in positive as well. It's often easy to dismiss, say public radio listeners, or Starbucks patrons as the anti-gun crowd but it's my experience that's not the reality.
     
  14. Mutoman

    Mutoman North Bend Active Member

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    The Brady site makes a reasonable mention of the possibility of some holders of concealed permits not having enough firearm training. From personal experience, the class I took to get my CHL was not a class for those who were unfamiliar with firearms. There were a few people in the class that obviously shouldn't be carrying a loaded weapon until they have further training.

    I am middle of the road on this issue, I don't like the fact of having more rules and regulations applied to keeping a firearm, but I see the need to make sure owners of firearms, especially concealed permit holders, have proven knowledge of firearm safety and handling; most of us probably got that training from our family or a Hunters Safety Class when we were young, but not all who get concealed permits have that valuable training and experience.

    You have to pass a test to operate a boat in Oregon, not to carry a concealed handgun.
     
  15. PeakResources

    PeakResources Portland (past) Colorado (now) Member

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    While I do agree that there are those out there (with and without CHL) who aren't properly trained to use a handgun, I'm not sure how much I want the government meddling with this right as granted to us at our Country's founding.

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Our founders were wise to protect against an oppressive state. They had revolted against one, and as a result the Constitution is full of protections. They wanted to limit the powers of government over individuals, but at the same time protect their liberties. Government (and indeed, any institution that aggregates huge amounts of power) can be just as dangerous as individuals as other individuals.

    There are arguments that exist against individuals carrying or even owning handguns (safety, comfort, government paternalism, ineffective background checks, inadequate determination of fitness of CHL holder, bystander injuries, possibility of leaving weapon unattended or have it stolen, etc), but restrictions necessarily "infringe" upon the rights of the people.

    If we truly hold the constitution and it's meaning in high regard (and I'm not convinced we do), the arguments for or against should be moot. Our right to "bear arms... shall not be infringed". You can even argue (as many do) that the CHL itself infringes upon that right.

    My two cents.