CHL shooting video from Florida

matt_w · Jul 17, 2012

Charges unlikely against man who shot robbers | Gainesville.com

Not sure if this has been posted already, but WTF is going on in this video? Everyone is just randomly milling around while the shooting is going on? Is that a common thing to happen?? Luckily the guy didn't hit any innocents, but it looks like some of them were really asking for it.

revmedia · Jul 17, 2012

Shooting while the target retreats is a bad idea. The law covers you while you're in danger. Once the threat is removed and you keep shooting, you're open to being charged with a crime.

matt_w said:
Charges unlikely against man who shot robbers | Gainesville.com

Not sure if this has been posted already, but WTF is going on in this video? Everyone is just randomly milling around while the shooting is going on? Is that a common thing to happen?? Luckily the guy didn't hit any innocents, but it looks like some of them were really asking for it.

coyoteman5 · Jul 17, 2012

They are still moving and able to shoot back to me that is still a danger to me. I know it's different in the military you keep shooting when the enemy is retreating. I also think if the guy had stop shoot who to say the punks wouldn't start shoot at you and coming back at you.
Just my two cents

John Gault · Jul 17, 2012

Would like to hear how many of those rounds fired hit the mark, where they hit the mark, ammunition type (ball, manufacturer, hollow point, etc) I'm just saying, that the guy was damn near point blank range when the first shots were fired. My concern here would be that if the other guy started shooting instead of running that things could have turned out badly for a lot of people. The shooter (victim) wasn't looking for any cover that I could see so did he think (as I may have) that the shots delivered should have had a faster central nervous system effect that was actual? Not saying the shooter did or didn't make the right call cause I didn't see the whole thing, I've never been in that position and cannot comment on what adrenalin would do to me at that moment. I just would like anything to help me from a learning perspective. Hopefully there will be some follow-up on this story.

revmedia · Jul 17, 2012

It looks like 5 rounds fired and each suspect hit once. Neither was life threatening. Hindsight is 20/20, right? Well we can use videos like this as a learning tool about what and what not to do. Shooting at fleeing suspects is a bad idea from a legal standpoint as well as a safety standpoint. The first thing I was taught was when shots start flying, seek cover.

Adrenaline plays a huge part in how we react in situations like this. That's why training is so important. Your body goes into default mode, and you will hopefully revert to the way you trained.

I'm clearly approaching this from an leo standpoint, but most firearms training comes from law enforcement. There's a reason for that, leo's main goal is to protect innocents and then go home alive.

revmedia · Jul 17, 2012

So, you pursue to the end of the earth? You shoot to stop the threat. If you can articulate why there was still a threat, then by all means keep firing. This situation was pretty much over after shot number 2. The guys were clearly fleeing. Each situation is different and if, God forbid, any of us is in a similar situations, we will all have to make a desicion about when the threat is gone. A jury will probably decide if we made the right call.

Skang said:
what if bad guy is running for taking a cover. you are going to wait for bad guy to take a cover and fire back at you?

Williams look like hickok45.

G1GRANDEUR · Jul 17, 2012

revmedia said:
So, you pursue to the end of the earth? You shoot to stop the threat. If you can articulate why there was still a threat, then by all means keep firing. This situation was pretty much over after shot number 2. The guys were clearly fleeing. Each situation is different and if, God forbid, any of us is in a similar situations, we will all have to make a desicion about when the threat is gone. A jury will probably decide if we made the right call.

I wouldn't follow them and shoot till I know they are dead, but Williams stopped shooting after they are far away from the people. (though looked like he ran out of ammo at that time)

we never know what will happen. Williams could have been dead or shot, if he stopped shooting after first round and bad guy fire back at him.

lamrith · Jul 17, 2012

If you whatch till the end of the video you see one of the punks was turned around facing him. On the ground, scrambling but facing him so still a threat.

The Shooter was smart to pursue to the door thus ensuring the office was cleared and safe, but he did not pursue outside. If he had stopped after the 1st two shots the punks might have not fled out and taken cover to return fire which would have been catastrophic for everyone in the cafe. Thankfully he stopped at the door, whether it was because he was out of ammo or not is another issue, but it likely saved him from prosecution.

darkminstrel · Jul 17, 2012

Good shoot. Bad choice of calibre. For his age and skill perhaps it was the correct one for him though. Two more punks into the System, maybe getting rehabbed and not screwing around like this again.

billstaf · Jul 17, 2012

Good for Williams. It doesn't pay to screw with old guys. I do wonder about the caliber though. Williams was banging away one-handed and there didn't seem to be that much recoil or serious damage with the hits. I would want a larger caliber and a two-handed grip.

In the video, Williams seems to go after the pistol guy and ignores the shotgun guy. That could have been a big mistake. As it turned out, both punks fled like startled deer anyway. (Wet their pants, I bet.)

Still, you have to hand it to the guy. He has some moxie in him.

darkminstrel · Jul 17, 2012

billstaf said:
In the video, Williams seems to go after the pistol guy and ignores the shotgun guy.

I thought it was a shotgun too, but on a good freeze frame you see that it's an aluminium bat.

cpy911 · Jul 17, 2012

I understand it was a .380 that he carried. Don't know if it was Ruger LCP, P3AT mouse-gun or something else.
It definitely scared the BG's away, but if it turned into a gunfight, 9mm/.38+p would have been nicer to have...

I carry a P3AT as an always gun...better than a sharp stick I guess.

lamrith · Jul 17, 2012

Both perps were hit only once, niether gunshot was life threatening, a larger projectile is not going to change that really

The shooter carried the weapon he was comfortable with, otherwise he may not have hit at all, Have to hit them for the caliber to matter.

cpy911 · Jul 17, 2012

As Henderson turns his back, Williams pulls out a .380-caliber semi-automatic handgun, stands from his chair, takes two steps, nearly drops to one knee, and fires two shots at Henderson, who bolts for the front door.

Williams takes several more steps toward the door and continues firing as Henderson and Dawkins fall over one another trying to exit the building. The two eventually run off screen.

Both men were shot by Williams. Their wounds were not life-threatening. Each was arrested hours later and charged with attempted armed robbery with a firearm and felony criminal mischief.