Chinese knock-offs on Amazon, beware of Third-Party Sellers

[Aero Denezol]

I recently ordered a Bushnell TRS-25 from Amazon. Unfortunately, Amazon was stock out at the time, and defaulted to a third-party seller, Harry King Trading out of Colorado. To make a long story short, I received a Chinese fake/knock-off. It came in a chintzy box with no battery, instructions, or warranty card. There is no model# or serial# on the unit.

Of course, the rat-bastard seller denies that it is a fake! According to the him, these are units are purchased "directly from the factory" in order to "save costs" (stolen?). He won't pay for return shipping, and I refuse to pay for return shipping because I did nothing wrong.

Has anyone run into counterfeit items like this, and is it even worth the trouble of fighting? Should I just use this thing and see how long before it breaks?

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[tac]

Don't you have any official office of trading standards in your state? Personally, having given the vendor the opportunity to make things right/come clean, I'd be going Western on his reputation as a 'fair trader', everywhere you legally can do so.

He and Amazon are both in a sticky position, with you having proof of sale, and he having provided you with carppy merchandise that is NOT what he claims it to be.

 

[arakboss]

Doesn't Amazon provide help with third party vendors. If it makes you feel any better, I think all trs-25's are made in China.

 

[Aero Denezol]

If it makes you feel any better, I think all trs-25's are made in China.

I know the TRS-25 is itself a cheap copy of an Aimpoint, but man, paying for a copy of another copy is about as cheap-o as it gets.

 

[bbbass]

Doesn't Amazon provide help with third party vendors. If it makes you feel any better, I think all trs-25's are made in China.

Isn't everything???

I haven't had a fake from Amazon, third party or otherwise, but I did rx a shotgun stock that had been reboxed and was not the correct item... not the item that belonged in that box... was supposed to be for a Mossy and the part # traced back to a Remmy model. I've had trouble with Amazon returns before, so I just retooled it to make it work.

Amazon returns are not worth the hassle. And no, they don't stand behind their customers, tending to side with the vendor or taking a hands off approach.

 

[Retired Guy]

Doesn't Amazon provide help with third party vendors. If it makes you feel any better, I think all trs-25's are made in China.

I bought a set of Howard Leight electronic headphones from Amazon. I try to avoid third party vendors. When I clicked on the item, it said it was being sold by Amazon. When it was shipped, it said it was from a third party vendor.

This headphone was counterfeit. It looked real but the battery pack was different. It also amplified sound but did not cut off loud noises.

Amazon refused to take it back and told me to contact the vendor. The vendor was long gone and not answering emails. Amazon ignored my emails from that point on. Luckily, I only lost $45 and not more. Just be really careful. I really don't buy much from Amazon anymore and no longer have a Prime membership.

 

[Dungannon]

I think these 3rd party knock-off vendors know that folks aren' going to spend a lot of money pursuing them through the courts. So unless the courts hold Amazon responsible for the conduct of the vendors that piggy-back their service, not much can be done aside from giving a bad review of the product [specifying which 3rd party vendor it came from] on Amazon.

Amazon can be held liable for third-party seller products: U.S. appeals court

A federal appeals court on Wednesday ruled against Amazon.com Inc <AMZN.O> in a case that could expose the online retailer to lawsuits from customers who buy defective products from third-party vendors through its website.

www.reuters.com

 

[bbbass]

I think these 3rd party knock-off vendors know that folks are going to spend a lot of money pursuing them through the courts. So unless the courts hold Amazon responsible for the conduct of the vendors that piggy-back their service, not much can be done aside from giving a bad review of the product [specifying which 3rd party vendor it came from] on Amazon.

Amazon can be held liable for third-party seller products: U.S. appeals court

A federal appeals court on Wednesday ruled against Amazon.com Inc <AMZN.O> in a case that could expose the online retailer to lawsuits from customers who buy defective products from third-party vendors through its website.

www.reuters.com

If I read all the negative reviews, I would never buy anything.... so many are done by competing vendors so there is no validity/reliability to those reviews.

 

[titsonritz]

This is why I ONLY deal with quality vetted vendors.

 

[Member 34319]

I've had some experiences with this on Amazon before. Each time Amazon made it right.

Only twice did Amazon get a little touchy with me. I reminded them that I shop on Amazon to be secure and void of fake products. That I pay for an annual prescription for a reason.

I threatened one of the two time that I'd consider completely closing my account. They refunded the knock off purchase almost immediately.

 

[K-22]

I recently ordered a Bushnell TRS-25 from Amazon. Unfortunately, Amazon was stock out at the time, and defaulted to a third-party seller, Harry King Trading out of Colorado. To make a long story short, I received a Chinese fake/knock-off. It came in a chintzy box with no battery, instructions, or warranty card. There is no model# or serial# on the unit.

Of course, the rat-bastard seller denies that it is a fake! According to the him, these are units are purchased "directly from the factory" in order to "save costs" (stolen?). He won't pay for return shipping, and I refuse to pay for return shipping because I did nothing wrong.

Has anyone run into counterfeit items like this, and is it even worth the trouble of fighting? Should I just use this thing and see how long before it breaks?

There federal agencies that deal with this type of fraud.
I cannot recall which one deals specifically with "knock offs", but I expect a call to the US Attorney's office would yield the info you need.
If this was delivered by the USPS, I would start postal fraud proceedings.
Put some fear, fines, and jail time on people that perpetrate this type of crime.

 

[AMT]

Does the description specifically state that it is a "real" TRS? Is the wording in the description vague and "iffy" and make you wonder?

Was it an Amazon "Prime" item?

Got a link to what you purchased? I tried to do a little searching and could not find any TRS-25 that was not offered by Bushnell. There is one for sale that is advertised as "Renewed" for about $2 cheaper. Was that the one you ordered?

 

[Alexx1401]

I recently ordered a Bushnell TRS-25 from Amazon. Unfortunately, Amazon was stock out at the time, and defaulted to a third-party seller, Harry King Trading out of Colorado. To make a long story short, I received a Chinese fake/knock-off. It came in a chintzy box with no battery, instructions, or warranty card. There is no model# or serial# on the unit.

Of course, the rat-bastard seller denies that it is a fake! According to the him, these are units are purchased "directly from the factory" in order to "save costs" (stolen?). He won't pay for return shipping, and I refuse to pay for return shipping because I did nothing wrong.

Has anyone run into counterfeit items like this, and is it even worth the trouble of fighting? Should I just use this thing and see how long before it breaks?

How did you pay? Did you use a Credit Card? If so you are gold.
Contact Amazon, tell them what happened, give them a chance to make it right. If they refuse contact the bank who issued the card. Tell them you were the victim of fraud, that Amazon (who is the one who charged the card) refuses to fix it. The bank will take the money back from Amazon. Watch how fast Amazon contacts you to refund your money, and offer an RMA you pay nothing for.
Now if you paid some other way? All you can do is contact Amazon and try.

 

[Aero Denezol]

@AMT per my original post it was a Prime item, sold by Amazon. When I placed my order, Amazon was stock out, so it defaulted to Harry King Trading. The listings for both were identical. All that aside, the crook who sold it told me says it is real, purchased "directly from the factory", to "save costs". He must be used to dealing w/ the Airsoft crowd, because any adult could immediately see it was a fake.

 

[Alexx1401]

I bought a set of Howard Leight electronic headphones from Amazon. I try to avoid third party vendors. When I clicked on the item, it said it was being sold by Amazon. When it was shipped, it said it was from a third party vendor.

This headphone was counterfeit. It looked real but the battery pack was different. It also amplified sound but did not cut off loud noises.

Amazon refused to take it back and told me to contact the vendor. The vendor was long gone and not answering emails. Amazon ignored my emails from that point on. Luckily, I only lost $45 and not more. Just be really careful. I really don't buy much from Amazon anymore and no longer have a Prime membership.

How did you pay? The only "good way" to pay for purchases on line is a Credit Card. If you pay this way and anyone tries to screw with you the bank just takes the money back. The only people who get screwed are those who just allow it, if they paid correctly. I have shopped Amazon a VERY long time. One time a 3d party did try this crap. Amazon at first said "sorry we did not sell this, you need to contract the vendor" I contacted the bank, bank took the money back. Then same day I hear from Amazon with "did we do something to upset you?" I told them seller screwed me, you told me to pound sand. In a few minutes I hear again that they have credited my account and offer an RMA I can print out to send item back free.
This same thing work anyplace. E-bay learned this early on. It was why they pushed so hard to get buyers to use a bank account to make purchases. They knew if someone screwed with you and a Credit Card had been charged, they lost, every time.
The one time I am real careful with Amazon is when I am using gift cards. Since then you would be at their mercy. Shop online? Pay with a Credit Card. As long as you are in the US, you have amazing protections. This is not just online too. While back a furniture/ appliance store here went under. One morning people showed up and the doors are locked, signs say they have gone under. A LOT of people had item there they had paid for. Those who paid cash or check? They were given the # to call the court appointed receiver, they could get in line. Those who paid with a Credit Card? Bank just returned their money to them.

 

[Helocat]

I recently ordered a Bushnell TRS-25 from Amazon. Unfortunately, Amazon was stock out at the time, and defaulted to a third-party seller, Harry King Trading out of Colorado. To make a long story short, I received a Chinese fake/knock-off. It came in a chintzy box with no battery, instructions, or warranty card. There is no model# or serial# on the unit.

Of course, the rat-bastard seller denies that it is a fake! According to the him, these are units are purchased "directly from the factory" in order to "save costs" (stolen?). He won't pay for return shipping, and I refuse to pay for return shipping because I did nothing wrong.

Has anyone run into counterfeit items like this, and is it even worth the trouble of fighting? Should I just use this thing and see how long before it breaks?

1ST Amazon will always protect themselves. They do this both ways with you the consumer and me a seller. FILE an A To Z Claim on the order. If the product received was NOT AS ADVERTISED they should honor the request to ship it back at the seller's cost. However if the seller demands you pay return shipping, do it if your still whole once you get the refund. Shipping on a scope should be $10 max. (Amazon will monetize that return shipping, prob cost them $6 to ship pocketing that. 40%)

USE the Amazon return label they offer since it will keep the return all inside the Amazon system. They know when it's picked up and if you're in good standing as a buyer (don't have a ton of returns) they usually will issue a refund same day it's scanned as picked up. The A to Z claims is the absolute best tool for the consumer.

A-to-z Guarantee - Amazon Customer Service

The A-to-z Guarantee protects you when you buy items sold and fulfilled by a third-party seller. It covers both the timely delivery and condition of your items. If you're not happy with either and can’t resolve the issue directly with the seller, you can make a claim directly to Amazon and our...

www.amazon.com

On the seller side:
A to Z Claims are the absolute worse for sellers as if we get a claim. Our agreements to sell on Amazon is we agree to cover ANY A to Z claim out of our pockets 100%. The more you sell on Amazon the more of your $ they hold for 30+ rolling days before they deposit into your account. This way they always have YOUR $ on hand to cover any claims. Also, they at anytime prob have a Billion US floating in their accounts so imagine the interest they get each day with SELLERS $. We also have to maintain a credit card on hand they will ALSO bill for anything the retained sales does not cover.

Amazon has over 50% of ALL online sales in the US. Last yr. more people in the US had Prime accounts than landline phones. Apple, Facebook, and Google combined have less staff than Amazon. Amazon has the largest legal team of any company in the US. Amazon can care less for sellers as they have just about 3K new sellers signing up PER DAY. But you're far more likely to sell your junk if you're on Amazon since they have 50% of all online sales! It's a vicious cycle.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Do I buy from Amazon?

Yep, but not high priced stuff.

I stick with Midwest, Brownells, Primary Arms...have never been burned by them.

 

[WAYNO]

I've had some experiences with this on Amazon before. Each time Amazon made it right.

Only twice did Amazon get a little touchy with me. I reminded them that I shop on Amazon to be secure and void of fake products. That I pay for an annual prescription for a reason.

I threatened one of the two time that I'd consider completely closing my account. They refunded the knock off purchase almost immediately.

I had a third party issue one time, and Amazon refused to get inolved with a third party purchase. I learned a lesson, and shy away from third party vendors.

 

[Member 34319]

I had a third party issue one time, and Amazon refused to get inolved with a third party purchase. I learned a lesson, and shy away from third party vendors.

That was sort of the stance Amazon started to take with me on one of mine.

I reminded them that Amazon charged my account, not the seller. That Amazon was the website I purchased the item through. Not some random online store. The more I kept repeating myself on the phone with the person the more they started to help me out.

I shop on Amazon for the security, the moment that goes away, it's no better than Ebay.

I also threatened to cancel my Prime account, which may or may not have motivated the person on the phone.

I also referenced Walmart's online store wouldn't screw me over like that.

Threats go a long way when dealing with these types of things.

If Amazon needs third parties to sell stuff they don't carry, under their umbrella, they best cover it, or they will lose customers.

 

[Alexx1401]

That was sort of the stance Amazon started to take with me on one of mine.

I reminded them that Amazon charged my account, not the seller. That Amazon was the website I purchased the item through. Not some random online store. The more I kept repeating myself on the phone with the person the more they started to help me out.

I shop on Amazon for the security, the moment that goes away, it's no better than Ebay.

I also threatened to cancel my Prime account, which may or may not have motivated the person on the phone.

I also referenced Walmart's online store wouldn't screw me over like that.

Threats go a long way when dealing with these types of things.

If Amazon needs third parties to sell stuff they don't carry, under their umbrella, they best cover it, or they will lose customers.

I did not even bother with threats when Amazon tried this with me. Just went to the bank. I did it on line, then the Bank called me. Asked a couple questions, that was it. It was next day Amazon contracted me and made it right. Credit Cards offer an amazing amount of protection here in the US. It has been this way from the time I was old enough to get one. The bank will refund your money and it is up to the vendor to pay for the return. If vendor does not want to pay for the return you can keep the item. People who get screwed, if they paid with a credit card, only get screwed because they allowed it. Just don't let any vendor blow smoke up your A$$ about it. If they will not make it right? Contact the bank. The bank will fix it.