Chicago Mayor Daley Refuses to Say if Homeowner Will be Charged

[Trlsmn]

Its a constitutional right. It should not be subject to the whims of a local political demagogue.

Exactly and SCOTUS agrees.

 

[bugeye]

So in short, you feel that the good folks of Chicago should be able to overule the US Constitution? So that means that the folks in some of the southern states should be able to reinstate slavery and "work that out as a local issue"? Maybe the good folks in Oregon can just abolish freedom of speech "and work that out as a local issue"? Also, the good folks in Arizona should be able to set up a law to deport all Mexicans, legal or not and "work that out on a local level"? LOL.

State's rights do not allow for violation of RIGHTS guaranteed by the Constitution! Please take that message and pass it on through the rest of the progressives on up to the Messiah himself! The Constitution is the governing document of our entire country. I know that has been problematic at times for you guys, but it is the way it is.

This is also absurd, we have federal laws now that limit what types of weapons we can have now, and these have not been found unconstitutional. People in Chicago are free to have any kind of gun they want to the federal limits except for handguns. This means they can have AR's 18" shotguns, etc. I think the law is stupid too, but I don't live in Chicago.

 

[bugeye]

haven't read the FBI crime statistics have you? In EVERY area where gun control has been loosened and concealed carry allowed the crime rates have gone down.

Here are some published in the July/August "American Handgunner"

77%
Violent crime increase in UK since 1997

2,034
Violent crime per 100k in UK

1,609
Violent crime per 100k in South Africa

935
Violent crimes per 100k in Canada

466
Violent crime per 100k in US!!

But with your attitude I don't expect mere truth to mean anything to you at all.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
WAC member
SWWAC member

So nothing else has happened in the UK since 1997 that could have effected the crime rate? sheesh!
And South Africa has had no other factors?
A quick look at the source of these figures for the UK seems to be the conservative party who took on Brown's Labor party with a set of bs numbers.
A quick look seems that all reported theft was classed as violent crime, a trick that would highly inflate the figure you listed for the USA. Looking at something more specifc than this interpretation of violent crime, the actual murder rate in the UK is 1.49 for every 100,000 people, Canada has 1.9 per 100K, and the good ol usa has about 4.2 per 100K. The rest is voodoo based on what you call a violent crime.

So, your truth isn't!

 

[snew]

Stolen from Wiki

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage statistics that do not support their positions. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

We've all heard it before and it goes both ways. Many times all we really have to go on when determining how to interpret the statistics we're fed is to attampt to determine motive. What are they trying to sell us.

The FBI statistics are what I would assume to be against what they would need to sell us any aganda which I assume to be wanting more funding and such. That lends them a bit more credibility to me than anything I hear on TV or from posters such as bugeye.

Sorry bugeye. I've pigeonholed you into incredulity. Anything out of your mouth I read as misdirection.

Internet arguments are stupid.

 

[2zuks]

So nothing else has happened in the UK since 1997 that could have effected the crime rate? sheesh!
And South Africa has had no other factors?
A quick look at the source of these figures for the UK seems to be the conservative party who took on Brown's Labor party with a set of bs numbers.
A quick look seems that all reported theft was classed as violent crime, a trick that would highly inflate the figure you listed for the USA. Looking at something more specifc than this interpretation of violent crime, the actual murder rate in the UK is 1.49 for every 100,000 people, Canada has 1.9 per 100K, and the good ol usa has about 4.2 per 100K. The rest is voodoo based on what you call a violent crime.

So, your truth isn't!

Yeah, statistics for the most part are easy to take apart. Florida is a fairly good example of crime rates declining with less restrictive gun laws. They issued CHL's a long time ago and someone decided they should stop. In the years that they didn't issue CHL's the crime rate soared, especially violent crime rate. They kept that policy for ten years or so I believe. When they decided to start issuing CHL's again, their crime rate went back down. I will see if I can find a link on it. We studied it fairly well in one of my criminal justice classes a few years ago.

 

[Minisocks]

2,034
Violent crime per 100k in UK

1,609
Violent crime per 100k in South Africa

935
Violent crimes per 100k in Canada

466
Violent crime per 100k in US!!

But with your attitude I don't expect mere truth to mean anything to you at all.

If you're interested in truth then you should know that this particular article is misleading (though probably not on purpose). Not every country defines "violent crime" the same way. For example, the US only includes aggravated assault as a violent crime while the UK includes all assaults in its statistics. This would significantly increase the overall crime rate because the most common "violent crime" is assault. If you're looking to do a parity comparison you should look at murder vs. murder, mugging vs. mugging, rape vs. rape, assault vs. assault. The US has a pretty narrow definition of "violent crime" while the UK has a pretty broad one thus more crimes will fall under the "violent crime" umbrella in the UK than will in the US. It's easy to pull numbers from crime databases, it's harder to put them in context.

Fun with stats!

edit: Just so there's no misunderstanding, I think Chicago has dumb gun laws.
edit2: ha, looks like I'm not the only person who jumped up that article's ***, lols
edit3: I went ahead and whipped up my own crime index using DoJ's definition. That is, "violent crime" is defined as: murder, rape, robbery, all assaults (regular and aggravated). Then I compared 3 counties (US, UK, Canada) on this index based on numbers from the DoJ, StatsCan, and Nationmaster. To make the index I just added up the scores and treated each crime as a discrete incident. I also listed the individual rates as well. So, here it is:

Minisocks Modified Violent Crime Rate Index O' Truth.
US: 936.9
UK: 918.9
Canada: 868.8

murder:
US: 5.4
UK: 1.4
Canada: 1.4

rape:
US: 29.3
UK: 14.2
Canada: 73.3 (wtf)

robbery:
US: 145.3
UK: 157.4
Can: 82.3

all assaults:
US 756.9
UK: 745.9
Can: 711.8

All stats are per 100k population. As you can see, there's not a huge difference between the countries when you use a parity index. Well, except for the fact that Canada is apparently rape-crazy.

 

[Cougfan2]

Back to the original post, I just read in another news article that they did indeed confiscate the guy's pistol, which I had expected, but it is now confirmed.

I wonder how long if will take the scumbag's homies to go try to exact some revenge now that they know the poor guy is disarmed again?

 

[Skybill]

Back to the original post, I just read in another news article that they did indeed confiscate the guy's pistol, which I had expected, but it is now confirmed.

I wonder how long if will take the scumbag's homies to go try to exact some revenge now that they know the poor guy is disarmed again?

Hopefully he's not really disarmed! Just missing one of his "collection"!

But then again the "scumbag's homies" probably aren't smart enough to think that far ahead and will get the same fate as the other one!

 

[bugeye]

Oh come on, you post BS and everybody else is suppose to learn something.........

Yes, notice how I checked the info then admitted that I was wrong, now there is a liberal progressive trait for you! We actually learn from being corrected, and that has many advantages as opposed to say, changing the subject, finding another talking point, or refusing to accept reality whenever you're proven wrong, a set of rightie traits demonstrated in here time and time again.

 

[Cougfan2]

But then again the "scumbag's homies" probably aren't smart enough to think that far ahead and will get the same fate as the other one!

One can only hope.

 

[bugeye]

So if we take your "logic" to its ultimate conclusion...should we then let the white majority in some small Mississippi town "establish their own policy" towards slavery, or segregation of the black minority in their city...as a "local issue"? With the support of their "local" sheriff?

Its a constitutional right. It should not be subject to the whims of a local political demagogue.

If we take logic to its ultimate conclusion we would at bare minimum never think though analogy. Since A never equals A', you might as well just decide on the issue as it is rather than as it isn't.

 

[Member 5605]

Since when does local law trump federal law?

that's all I'm wondering, and why is it not enforced on the federal level?

 

[bugeye]

If you're interested in truth then you should know that this particular article is misleading (though probably not on purpose). Not every country defines "violent crime" the same way. For example, the US only includes aggravated assault as a violent crime while the UK includes all assaults in its statistics. This would significantly increase the overall crime rate because the most common "violent crime" is assault. If you're looking to do a parity comparison you should look at murder vs. murder, mugging vs. mugging, rape vs. rape, assault vs. assault. The US has a pretty narrow definition of "violent crime" while the UK has a pretty broad one thus more crimes will fall under the "violent crime" umbrella in the UK than will in the US. It's easy to pull numbers from crime databases, it's harder to put them in context.

Fun with stats!

edit: Just so there's no misunderstanding, I think Chicago has dumb gun laws.
edit2: ha, looks like I'm not the only person who jumped up that article's ***, lols
edit3: I went ahead and whipped up my own crime index using DoJ's definition. That is, "violent crime" is defined as: murder, rape, robbery, all assaults (regular and aggravated). Then I compared 3 counties (US, UK, Canada) on this index based on numbers from the DoJ, StatsCan, and Nationmaster. To make the index I just added up the scores and treated each crime as a discrete incident. I also listed the individual rates as well. So, here it is:

Minisocks Modified Violent Crime Rate Index O' Truth.
US: 936.9
UK: 918.9
Canada: 868.8

murder:
US: 5.4
UK: 1.4
Canada: 1.4

rape:
US: 29.3
UK: 14.2
Canada: 73.3 (wtf)

robbery:
US: 145.3
UK: 157.4
Can: 82.3

all assaults:
US 756.9
UK: 745.9
Can: 711.8

All stats are per 100k population. As you can see, there's not a huge difference between the countries when you use a parity index. Well, except for the fact that Canada is apparently rape-crazy.

Wow, great job, though I've heard the high rape rate in Canada stems only from the town of Saskatoon, lol, just kidding!

 

[Cougfan2]

Wow, great job, though I've heard the high rape rate in Canada stems only from the town of Saskatoon, lol, just kidding!

Having been to Saskatoon, that makes it even funnier.

 

[Stomper]

Yes the reponsiblity of being a judge is great but there is no responsiblity for the outcome, this is just as it is!

No, they do NOT bear the responsibility for the outcome... that is were PERSONAL responsibility for one's OWN actions comes to bear... instead of dragging EVERYONE ELSES' rights down to the lowest "common denominator", that being, treat ALL of the citizenry "the same" as the very small percentage of the poplation that behave like sub-human scum, and take EVERYONE'S "toys" away to end the "argument is simplistic and so very uncalled for if they just PROSECUTED AND PUNNISHED violent offenders with the appropriate sentence... up to and including the death penalty. But hey, they are "collective" minded in that particular area of the country...

 

[bugeye]

No, they do NOT bear the responsibility for the outcome... that is were PERSONAL responsibility for one's OWN actions comes to bear... instead of dragging EVERYONE ELSES' rights down to the lowest "common denominator", that being, treat ALL of the citizenry "the same" as the very small percentage of the poplation that behave like sub-human scum, and take EVERYONE'S "toys" away to end the "argument is simplistic and so very uncalled for if they just PROSECUTED AND PUNNISHED violent offenders with the appropriate sentence... up to and including the death penalty. But hey, they are "collective" minded in that particular area of the country...

That 'lowest common denominator' thing is very true and has been a problem since our ancestors decided we needed to make some rules. I sure a responsible apelike critter managed to communicate the message, "why not just kill Og rather than making up dumb rules just for him?". Back in them days they killed Og, or perhaps, given a wise leader, they made him take the point during the hunts until nature took care of he problem, as it was far easier than inventing a judicial system. Ahhhh, the good old days!

 

[CEF1959]

Unless this 80 year old vet is actually charged, this whole thread amounts to nothing but needless hysteria.

 

[Trlsmn]

Unless this 80 year old vet is actually charged, this whole thread amounts to nothing but needless hysteria.

"Welcome to the internet, how may we help you?"

 

[Cougfan2]

 

[Stomper]

Unless this 80 year old vet is actually charged, this whole thread amounts to nothing but needless hysteria.

Hey... who's hysterical? Maybe YOU should get the hysterectomy!!