Chicago area Federal Appeals Court Rules Registration IS Constitutional

[whatzhizname]

Anyone who thought Heller was the end of this battle is sadly mistaken:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/19/taking_liberties/entry5253857.shtml?tag=stack

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[CEF1959]

This is a significant and very bad development. I can only hope that the plaintiffs suing the City of Cicero will appeal this to the Supremes.

Here's the extremely dangerous, though subtle rationale for the court's decision:

"Cicero has not prohibited gun possession in the town. Instead, it has merely regulated gun possession under Section 62-260 of its ordinance."

Merely? This is how we lose gun rights. Not all at once with jackbooted thugs coming door to door. It's stuff like this. Dangerous development.

There's an Edmund Burke quote about how liberty is lost, not by dramatic moves, but in small measures. Anybody got that quote handy?

 

[paulncharly2572]

This is a significant and very bad development. I can only hope that the plaintiffs suing the City of Cicero will appeal this to the Supremes.

Here's the extremely dangerous, though subtle rationale for the court's decision:

"Cicero has not prohibited gun possession in the town. Instead, it has merely regulated gun possession under Section 62-260 of its ordinance."

Merely? This is how we lose gun rights. Not all at once with jackbooted thugs coming door to door. It's stuff like this. Dangerous development.

There's an Edmund Burke quote about how liberty is lost, not by dramatic moves, but in small measures. Anybody got that quote handy?

I believe you are referring to "The true danger is when Liberty is nibbled away, for expedients and by parts.... The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men do nothing."

 

[fingolfen]

This is going to get worse before it gets better...

 

[Greenbaum]

I'm not old by any means, so my words of wisdom are only from experience. I do know that, if you give an inch, they don't take a mile, they hoard five! Baby steps is all the 'MAN' needs to gain leveridge, then total control.

One day, I will lay in a hole and laugh about the mindless people who FEEL life is perfect; That day, we'll all be dead and I'll still continue to laugh!!!

 

[PDXGuy]

We're in trouble. Get ready to have your firearms taken away. Here's a small excerpt from the artical:

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, said in an interview that registration is terrible public policy, especially because world history shows that it often leads to confiscation.

 

[s12tactical]

This ruling is setting a precedent for owning firearms. I see trouble times ahead people. First registration then confiscation. I can see it now; if you resist, then you will be tasered (multiple times) and arrested. You will then be sent to a FEMA camp, torture until you give up information on other people you know that own unregistered guns. Good times are coming people.

 

[wichaka]

Your firearms will never be taken away, there would be such a revolt even among LE types that it will never happen. Do you think LE type would give up their personal firearms? Nope, not in this life or the next.

They may be severely restricted, but not taken away.

 

[Doubletap]

Out of Chicago..hmmmmm Seems to me a lot of garbage comes out of Chicago.. Some of it ends up in very high places.. Coincidence?

 

[terrylf72]

This ruling is setting a precedent for owning firearms. I see trouble times ahead people. First registration then confiscation. I can see it now; if you resist, then you will be tasered (multiple times) and arrested. You will then be sent to a FEMA camp, torture until you give up information on other people you know that own unregistered guns. Good times are coming people.

Your firearms will never be taken away, there would be such a revolt even among LE types that it will never happen. Do you think LE type would give up their personal firearms? Nope, not in this life or the next.

They may be severely restricted, but not taken away.

Even if LE were to back the citizens and stand against the restrictions. Yes we are many, but if need be those who are now in power will use private army (I.E. Black Water, etc) and if need be call in the UN to use as urban controle and declare marshel law and restrick us to those FEMA Camps.

There is nothing in the Constitution, Bill of Rights that give the government the RIGHT to do what they are now doing other then the fact that they are in power and passing "BOGUS LAWS" to further control how and what we do.. And yet they are still doing it. I love this country, My family for 5 generation before me have served and shead blood for her and because of them and other I know and love and have lost. The direction this country is heading not only make me mad but saddens me to no end. To think that we again as free people may have to stand up and take back our country like we did some 233 years ago.

The second revolution will not be televised! And whether you know it or not we all have been preparing for future to head down that path for which we dont want to go down.

Ok im done..

 

[wichaka]

Blackwater and the like uses instructors around the country to do their classes for them. Myself and a few others here in the NW used to contract for Blackwater, soooooo they are us and we are them.

In the circles I run in, which are many in the industry...meaning the actual manufacturers of firearms, ammo, trainers/instructors etc....have yet to come across anyone who would back any type of outright ban of firearms.

You'd see a network of things being done underground.

 

[gunnoob75]

Coming to my door and taking my firearms is far from my mind.

Not being able to legally purchase more firearms (AR or otherwise)? That is what scares me.

 

[s12tactical]

This country will follow in the ways of Canada, England and Australia. I get the feeling that the general public will not stand up to the ALL POWERFUL GOVERNMENT.

Look at all the unconstitutional laws that has already been passed. People in general are too scare to stand up and fight. I'm sure there will be a few that will fight back...but not enough to make a difference. In the end...all of our rights will be taken away. Its inevitable.

People are too worried about losing their jobs. Too scare of going to prison and getting tortured not to mention getting raped by the guards and inmates....so yes in the end I see that they will get our guns.:angry::angry::angry:

The people that we supposedly elected is doing nothing to protect our rights. They are actually laughing at our futile attempt at resisting what will eventually happen the way they had planned.

 

[NK777]

Even if LE were to back the citizens and stand against the restrictions. Yes we are many, but if need be those who are now in power will use private army (I.E. Black Water, etc) and if need be call in the UN to use as urban controle and declare marshel law and restrick us to those FEMA Camps.

There is nothing in the Constitution, Bill of Rights that give the government the RIGHT to do what they are now doing other then the fact that they are in power and passing "BOGUS LAWS" to further control how and what we do.. And yet they are still doing it. I love this country, My family for 5 generation before me have served and shead blood for her and because of them and other I know and love and have lost. The direction this country is heading not only make me mad but saddens me to no end. To think that we again as free people may have to stand up and take back our country like we did some 233 years ago.

The second revolution will not be televised! And whether you know it or not we all have been preparing for future to head down that path for which we dont want to go down.

Ok im done..

I too am a veteran and I too feel as you do. Only way we will lose is by doing nothing. Stand up for freedom or bend over for tyranny. The choice is a simple one. There is a right and a wrong choice so choose wisely. Mind you if you choose evil over good in order to survive you will not survive at all, you will merely exist and be doing the work of evil doers like a slave only you volunteered to serve evil over good. You will begin to pay for your poor choice the moment you make the deal with the Beast. This I promise you.

 

[capdek]

Here's an interesting observation regarding the various posts made to the referenced article - the only hate speech I see is from anti-gun people. Just look at how hateful and bigoted some of their comments are (KKK, gun-nuts, etc.)! Why does our society tolerate this kind of bigoted talk against decent, law-abiding citizens exercising a basic civil right recognized in our Constitution? If this kind of demeaning, bigoted, and venomous language was used against blacks or hispanics or Jews or gays or women or any other "traditional" minority group, CBS would be censoring these comments left, right and center. It would seem, however, that it's OK to speak this way about law-abiding gun owners! :huh:
Based on our First Amendment, these pathetic individuals have every right to use this kind of language - demeaning and lowly as it may be - but society should frown on this kind of talk in the same way we frown on other bigoted hate-speech. I really think it's time for pro-gun groups to start calling these people out for what they are - hate-filled, hoplophobic bigots that have no qualm stereotyping a minority group! I would like to see a day when people who use the term "gun-nut" are considered in the same light as people who use the N-word!
I am an educated, rational, law-abiding citizen who happens to enjoy collecting and shooting firearms in a safe and responsible manner. And I'm sick and tired of hypocritical, holier-than-thou, freedom-hating bigots stereotyping me as some kind of nut! :angry:

 

[wichaka]

Not being able to legally purchase more firearms (AR or otherwise)? That is what scares me.

That's more like what I see coming.

 

[Silver Fox]

Gee... what a co-ink-a-dink that this should happen as Sotomeyer (SP?) takes the stand... I wonder how she will vote?

SF-

 

[Oro]

I think a lot of concerns and fears are unwarranted now - Heller has implications that are yet to be felt, and won't for years and years. It's almost unimaginable how big the "win" is that the right to keep and bear arms is now an individual and Constitutionally protected right.

Law works by applying precedent - and in this case there is an enormous body of legal precedent that exists and which our 2nd Amendment right is immediately draped in its protection. Most of these limits and protections revolve around 1st Amendment/free speech, but others, also. Guess what - courts are now bound to apply those same scrutinies and protection to the 2nd Amendment. It's monumental, to not be too strong about it. When you see a restriction placed upon 2nd Amendement expression, consider it in the frame of "would that be acceptable were it applied to speech and publishing?" Would taxes on political speech be accepted? Would licenses to own political books be accepted? I think you'll find these kinds of limits and other to be falling away - though it will take years. But it's going to be fun and fascinating to watch unfold.

Yes, it's going to take time for bans/restrictions/etc. to be fully challenged and tested through courts. And it's going to take the public at large many years to fully absorb this. "2nd Amendment Law" is now going to be a profitable and interesting field for a long time to come.

There's also a body of thought that taxes on firearms and ammunition may not be legal at all - imagine taxing "free speech" and you get the idea. There are going to be a legion of challenges, and lower court verdicts all over the map, right and wrong, for years to come.

 

[terrylf72]

Last night I remembered a movie kinda about where it seems our leaders are taking us down. It was a Mini-series that ran in the late 80's. And agreed Silver Fox; Sotomeyer (the sodomizer) is a true evil..

Thanks
NK777
wichaka

AmeriKa

Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og4UHIACEN0

 

[CEF1959]

In the circles I run in, which are many in the industry...meaning the actual manufacturers of firearms, ammo, trainers/instructors etc....have yet to come across anyone who would back any type of outright ban of firearms.

You'd see a network of things being done underground.

I agree that that's not a short term risk. But the danger is not in the frontal assault; it's in the flanking maneuver.

I can easily imagine the imposition, one-by-one, of restrictions that never quite amount to enough, in isolation, to cause significant underground activity. Registration on a local level, bans on new sales of this type of weapon or that, bans on imports of this or that, confiscatory gun and/or ammo taxes, etc. etc. There would be grumbling and howling along the way with each step, but no single restriction would cause otherwise law-abiding citizens to engage in illegal arms activity, let alone to take to the streets or build an underground network of lawbreakers.

After all the creeping restrictions are done, we'd be left with outdated weapons without reasonably available ammo, no spare parts with which to repair them, and a registration list that tells authorities where each is located. Good luck blocking state tyranny then.

We're already on that path, and we've been going along for decades. Full auto restricted. Suppressors restricted. Heavy munitions, restricted. Explosives restricted.

In the 18th Century when the Second Amendment was enacted, a group of citizens could lawfully muster arms sufficient to challenge the world's most powerful army. When the Brits tried to confiscate private cannon, they ignited the First Revolution. Today, no one bats an eye about the effective unavailability of full auto for the general population. And cannons or high explosives? We don't even think about that anymore. The sheeple say baaahhh and bare their throats. We are, as citizens, pitifully weak now in comparison with the power of state arms.

How did we get here? By little dribbles of restrictions, each now defended vigorously by law enforcement at every level. Now that we've allowed the state an overwhelming advantage in the weapons it can employ, the citizens' ability to check state tyranny is a joke. It will only get worse. So at what point do people say no? If you are waiting for confiscation before taking action, you'll end up with the functional equivalent of confiscation imposed by other means, and LE will have been complicit, as they are now complicit in enforcing existing restrictions imposed in dribbles.

Beware the dribbles. They add up. If you won't go to the mat on any single small step, it doesn't matter whether you'd do something serious about outright confiscation.