Cheapskate at the Counter

[Nosferatu]

Proper protocol is to kick him in the nuts and send a bill for the shoe shine.

 

[DirectDrive]

As stated above...

1) Have a clear cut agreement between yourself and the buyer before the meetup.
2) Be prepared to walk away from any deal at any time if it doesn't feel right.
Just do it before the 4473 Form is filled out and signed.

Unfortunately this guy was a manipulator.
You learned a $20 lesson that you will never forget.

 

[Koda]

Unfortunately this guy was a manipulator.
You learned a $20 lesson that you will never forget.

Im missing it, how was the guy a manipulator?

 

[DirectDrive]

Im missing it, how was the guy a manipulator?

Read Post #1

 

[Koda]

Read Post #1

Yes, I did. The guy asked him to pay the whole BGC, they settled on half. The guy paid half as agreed. Then he even gave him $5 more later. Whats the manipulation here?

 

[1775usmc]

Im missing it, how was the guy a manipulator?

Im with you.

He asked the seller to cover half the background/transfer fee before the meet up which the seller and buyer agreed upon. Upon the transaction the buyer didn't have enough cash and venmoed the remaining balance.

At the end of the day the seller got the money he agreed upon. No manipulation. He went home and read were the majority of transactions took place the buyer covered the transfer fee. At which point he felt entitled to the half he paid. After he already agreed to cover half. He's lucky he got $5 cause if it was me I wouldn't have sent any more money than what we agreed upon. With that said I would have done the due diligence to have the correct amount of cash before the meet up. Unless we agreed upon a different form of payment.

Unless I read something wrong.

 

[TTSX]

In my opinion, it's pretty cheap to complete a transaction then request even more money after the fact. The grocery store doesn't do that, the gun shop itself wouldn't do that and neither should you. Whether or not you were taken advantage of is a moot point once hands are shaken and money is exchanged for goods.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

"If you loan a friend $20.00 and you never see them again because they don't want to pay you back, that is the best $20.00 you have ever spent"

 

[1775usmc]

"If you loan a friend $20.00 and you never see them again because they don't want to pay you back, that is the best $20.00 you have ever spent"

Truth.

 

[bradsteen]

There are no rules, and the saying about what it means to "assume" is true. Echoing what many have already said...

1. In your ad, specify terms of the deal. For example, you might say "buyer to pay transfer fees unless otherwise agreed upon" to cover your bases. That leaves the door open for a negotiation (i.e. "I'll pay the fee, but we will meet at the FFL closest to my location") but sets the expectation with the buyer that they are paying for it.

2. If the buyer shows up and doesn't have the agreed upon amount, walk away. IMO that's disrespectful and demonstrates a lack of character worthy of killing the deal. Honest mistakes with counting cash happen, but the expectation is on the buyer to fulfill their part of the agreement. If they miscount I'll cut them some slack and wait a bit if they apologize for the oversight and immediately head to an ATM to get the difference. But I won't sign paperwork or start the transaction until the cash is in my hand.

3. The time to hash out issues is beforehand, because once the deal is done and paperwork is signed, you no longer have a claim to the firearm. If you think you somehow got shafted on the deal, treat it as a learning experience and move on. End of story.

4. The feedback system here is your friend. If a forum member shows up without enough cash to cover the deal or does other sketchy stuff, leave that feedback so others know to be on the lookout. Just be aware that negative feedback may flow both ways, so try to resolve your issues with the person before resorting to that. And when in doubt, engage the mods for help.

 

[GoShooting]

Everyone wants a deal. It is difficult to get anything close to what you or your Dad had into his guns sadly… unless it is something rare or highly sought after. If you're motivated there is always gunbroker. Gun shops are the last alternative to selling… unless perhaps on consignment… but that usually is never in the best interests of the seller. Most people will buy from you if you're fair, honest, helpful and patient. If they want to undercut you then that's ok… is all you can do is say no thank you. It's amazing how fast you can have $2000 into a pistol with custom parts, accessories and gun smithing. Even if you where a machinist, a tool and die maker or a Dentist, the credibility of the quality of work you yourself performed won't be appreciated by most buyers because they don't know the difference when they shoot the pistol you upgraded. But if you have papers from a reputable custom shop, that brings value and confidence, even though the proof may only be on paper. GLWS

 

[oremike]

And just so you know most deals here go smooth and easy and I've done a few. Every now and then there a chinker. I've had a recent one where I drove an hour and a half to meet the guy at a gun store to do the legal transfer and he was very insistent that we didn't have to do the paperwork. We finally went inside and did the legal transfer but I got the silent treatment the whole time complete with no hand shake when the deal was done.

 

[TTSX]

And just so you know most deals here go smooth and easy and I've done a few. Every now and then there a chinker. I've had a recent one where I drove an hour and a half to meet the guy at a gun store to do the legal transfer and he was very insistent that we didn't have to do the paperwork. We finally went inside and did the legal transfer but I got the silent treatment the whole time complete with no hand shake when the deal was done.

Did he ask you to reimburse him after the fact? I think that's my biggest sticking point in the OP

 

[oremike]

Did he ask you to reimburse him after the fact? I think that's my biggest sticking point in the OP

Nope

 

[Ducati_Meister]

In my experience, lay down your guidelines in your ad, cut and dry, and to the point. Make it clear who's paying the transfer fees, since they are a normal thing in the communist regimes here unfortunately. Have plenty of pics in your ads, disclose any imperfections, any parts, boxes, papers missing, aftermarket mods, etc. Key is, draw the line in the sand in writing and mentally.

I've had people in the past show up with less than agreed upon, probably thinking they would try to "pull a fast one". I'll still be polite but firm, saying when you bring the rest, we can continue the deal.

I'd say this is a cheap lesson nonetheless.

 

[Catfishmoon]

1. Who pays the transfer fee can go either way, needs to be agreed upon ahead of time by both parties.
2. Buyer was a jerk to not have the full agreed upon amount at meet up. As the seller, I would probably have ended the transaction at that point because I don't like that individual's character and I see no need to interact any farther.
3. It was inappropriate for the seller to ask for more money later regarding the transaction fees because they had already agreed upon how that would be paid previously. I would have said no if I was the buyer.

 

[L84Cabo]

You want to make sure you iron out all fee details up front. Best to stipulate in your ad things like, "Buyer to pay transfer fee." And especially if your buyer is picking the FFL to do the transfer at.

 

[orygun]

Showing up to make a purchase and not coming with enough money is not cool. Making it complete with Venmo or some other kind of cash app deal may be acceptable to some, but not me.
However, making a deal and then changing the terms of the deal after it's completed isn't cool, either. What other people do to complete their transactions has noting to do with the transaction that "you" agreed to. Apples and tomatoes, not the same.

Like other's have said, it's best to put it in the ad, but either way it should be decided on before showing up to make the sale/transfer.

I see nothing here to warrant a negative feedback.

 

[Paolung]

Wanting some thoughts from members.

I'm new to this forum, but not new to firearms. I was raised shooting in the Nevada deserts with my father. When he passed away I inherited his collection. Recently I've decided to keep a few favorites and sell the rest. Recently I sold a Mossberg 12GA pump at the counter at a local gun store. The gun store was great, the client not so much.

I've never sold firearms before and just recently I learned of this forum and I have been successful at selling a few. I am learning a lot and have met some great members. During my last encounter the buyer asked me to pay the transaction fee. In that moment I was not sure the rules or protocol around this and agreed to meet him half way. When it came time to pay he didn't have enough cash and asked if I was good taking less. I said that I was not and he was at a loss for how to get me the remaining cash. He Venmo'ed me the difference in the store after I suggested it.

When I got home I looked up the rules around transfer fees and everything I read says the buyer should pay. That also aligns with my 4 previous transactions where the buyer pays. When I got home I emailed the guy and asked if he would pay the remaining $25. He sent me $5. That feels cheap.

I feel like I got taken advantage of. The money isn't a lot, but its the principle. I didn't know the rules (and I should have) and he took advantage of that.

What are your thoughts?

Reflect your experience in your review of this person, if they are on NWFA. If not, live and learn.

I am of the school that "once the deal is made, it's the deal" - it can only be altered by the explicit agreement of both members. Showing up after the deal is made and trying to change it in your favor, absent a legitimate reason (say, the firearm isn't in the condition it was advertised as, or something along those lines - or, maybe you're adding something else of value) isn't cool, and it's not acting in good faith. People do this to take advantage of other, good-natured folks. But it's not acceptable.

The reason most people suggest the buyer pay the transfer fee is that if it comes back declined, the money is still out. You don't get a refund of the transfer fee if the background check fails; or at least, you don't get a refund of the portion of the fee that the BGC costs ($10). Most places won't give you a refund of any of it.

So if the BGC fails, and you paid part of it (or all of it), you're just out that money.

That said - I have seen a few people willing to wiggle on this, for NWFA members with significant (i.e. double digit) good feedback. The thinking is, "well they've already passed a bunch of background checks, so they'll pass this one too..."

I myself have made paying for a background check a condition of a trade before, when the trade was in the other person's favor. Of course, I passed the BGC.


But generally speaking, the buyer should pay for it because of the above reason- if it fails, no one gets a refund.

 

[Paolung]

Im missing it, how was the guy a manipulator?

Here: "When it came time to pay he didn't have enough cash and asked if I was good taking less."

No, not good with taking less. The deal was the deal, don't try to alter it without good reason. Buyer knew seller was already there and wanting to make the sale, and tried to cheap out on it, taking advantage of the seller. That's a manipulation attempt. Seller refused, but that doesn't make it any less manipulative, IMO.

A non-manipulative way to approach not having enough cash would have been to apologize and offer to go get the cash or Venmo/app it immediately, not ask if the seller was willing to take less.