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they are, or were the main contracted supplier for the us military for most AR15 based weapon systems. .. they are the standard that all the other companies have had to improve upon.
they suck at aesthetics, but as far as quality where it matters: barrels, BCGs, Recievers... second to none.
They were. At the time they were the only source for the TDP, as they owned the rights to it. FN got copies to produce their .mil rifles but were prohibited from using it on their commercial guns. Companies like LMT , BCM, And Sabre Defense (gone tits up) basically made guns to TDP spec because it was no great secret in how most of the recipe was formulated.

Colt is and has been the gold standard for a baseline AR and AR components. Correct Materials, Maching, QC and Batch testing is why COLT small parts always sell for a premium. Today, BCM puts out as good if not a better product, same with KAC. Noveske hasn't done bubblegum since John died, and DD despite some of the contract awards, is still not the quality of BCM. LMT is up there too, but they havent inovated much outside the MARS system.

For out of the box AR you just can't beat a SR15. Mod 0, 1 or 2.

Been building AR's for over 20 years professionally, in the military and as a hobby and you can't build as gun as accurate, reliable, durable and most of all, repeatable as the SR15. Its an easy choice.
 
My AR15 is a DPMS ORACLE. About as cheap as you can buy. It has never failed me and its run nuthin but the cheapest ammo. Now, that being said, I don't give a ding dong about sub MOA. For me, if I can ring my 10" steel, I'm happy. Its worked out to 300 yrds, the most I've tried.

Awhile back I bought a POF REVOLUTION for my big bore desires. She's good :)

Personally, I wouldn't hesitate on either end. IMHO, its hard to find a modern firearm that isn't worth owning, no matter the price.

YMMV :D
This is like someone buying a hammer at harbor frieght , using twice a decade and then going to a forum of carpenters and telling them all his hammer is as good as theirs despite the fact they drive more nails in a day then he does in a year.

Just some food for thought.

10" @ 300yards is 3.33 MOA. Hit a 10" gong at 1000 yards and you are at MOA. Any AR that can't shoot 1.5 MOA with quality ammo and a known shooter should be rebarreled or thrown into a dumpster.
 
The article I have from Shotgun News put the Anderson stripped lower in the category of a Aero Precision (tier two lowers.) They checked the hardness of the metal, the tolerances, etc. and found the Anderson lower to be just as good as any tier two category. If you look at an Anderson LPK against any tier two LPK you can visually see a difference. Anderson internals look like junk.
When i want expert AR advice...............I go to shotgun news and their 80 IQ columnists trying to make $200 per store.

That's because they have been rejected by Colt, BCM, etc for failing their QC process, a process lower tier AR makers very much lack.
And this is what alot of people don't realize. There are only so many small parts manufactures in the US.

PSA and Colt Orders 100 parts.
PSA puts every one for sale with no QC
Colt Does initial QC and Sends 40 Back. Of the 60 remaining they go to final non destructive testing and 20 more are rejected.

Those 60 that colt rejected for failing spec get sent back, and what do you think they do with them? Go ahead and sell them to PSA, DPMS and and every other budget brand trying to squeeze every cost out of a completed gun to increase profit margin.

BCM had the same issue with their uppers years ago. They would reject over 50% of their uppers due to not meeting spec. Most companies would just pass them on to the consumer. Its why when you buy a BCM upper you will have a true raceway and almost never have to face the reciever. They ended up contracting with a machine shop to make their uppers.

And its not like these companies are sending known bad parts to Colt, BCM, KAC (who actually make alot of small parts themselves). So real bubblegum ones plus the ones send back end up in you AR. And they are a ticking timebomb. Maybe they will fail maybe they wont. Could be under light or heavy use.

Do not trust your life or your families lives to crap guns or parts. Buy a factory gun from a reputable manufacture that has pedigree and is a known quantity. image0.jpg
 
For out of the box AR you just can't beat a SR15. Mod 0, 1 or 2.

Been building AR's for over 20 years professionally, in the military and as a hobby and you can't build as gun as accurate, reliable, durable and most of all, repeatable as the SR15. Its an easy choice.

agree 100%
If I could have only one, but it had to be off the shelf...it would hands down be an SR15.
 
This is like someone buying a hammer at harbor frieght , using twice a decade and then going to a forum of carpenters and telling them all his hammer is as good as theirs despite the fact they drive more nails in a day then he does in a year.

Just some food for thought.

10" @ 300yards is 3.33 MOA. Hit a 10" gong at 1000 yards and you are at MOA. Any AR that can't shoot 1.5 MOA with quality ammo and a known shooter should be rebarreled or thrown into a dumpster.
I think what he's saying is that for his purposes the rifle he bought is sufficient. This isn't Socnet so no, it's not like he's debating hammers with carpenters. We're mostly enthusiasts here. And mostly polite too, if you can take a hint.
 
I have built a few ARs in the last few years... and I can tell you that there are some crap parts... I've had to go to Sportmans last minute for a project, and I picked up a Bushmaster LPK and got it home to find the mag release is bent... very first part I install:confused:
Also had hammers so out of spec they slip off disco on reset... real safe.
The other day a guy had a front takedown pin stick so bad in the closed position he couldn't open it no matter how hard he beat on it....
My LGS get their small parts from Windham (basically bushmaster...but when they were quality) never had any problems with their parts.
 
The one part(s) I purchased that I immediately said "forget that" was a cmmg lpk. Nothing looked good, and a couple pieces were not in spec whatsoever. I went back and bought either an aero or spikes kit, and was off to the races. I only bought the cmmg kit because it happened to be there, was cheap, and i just kinda jumped without looking. I usually don't purchase the cheapest version of something, and this reaffirmed that thought.
 
And mostly polite too, if you can take a hint

I think people are getting cabin fever; I notice some individuals seem to be struggling in this area.

On topic, I'm very happy with my S&W M&P II. I actually like that it's a bit heavy, as I tend to be a little shaky and the weight steadies my aim.
 
This is like someone buying a hammer at harbor frieght , using twice a decade and then going to a forum of carpenters and telling them all his hammer is as good as theirs despite the fact they drive more nails in a day then he does in a year.

Just some food for thought.

10" @ 300yards is 3.33 MOA. Hit a 10" gong at 1000 yards and you are at MOA. Any AR that can't shoot 1.5 MOA with quality ammo and a known shooter should be rebarreled or thrown into a dumpster.


Sorry that I don't meet your criteria. Wait, not really. Your pretty full of yourself, aint ya?
 
Well, you are just a guy that shoots for fun.
In the future you may want to refrain from posting stuff like that in a forum that is full of real hardcore "operators" to avoid any undue stress.. ;)

I dunno, maybe find a forum that has other guys and gals in it that just shoot for fun and like to mess with guns and such.
 
I paid $1500 cash for my Daniel Defense in 2016. I got it at Kurt's in Milwaukee. Last year the same retailer offered me $1000 on a trade in for a DI LWRC. I kept the D.D. Regrettably it has a key mod fore end instead of mlock. Other than that I prefer it. My other AR is a 1990's Bushmaster. The thing is heavy. Gun shops only offer $400 on trade. I have $700 in that one. Due to folding stock ect. Neither rifle has jammed so far.
So you guys that build your own are to be commended. You end up knowing your rifle intimately. I know mine due to making my own ammunition. I can tailor it to the need.

Yesterday I was shooting my AR 10. I am still breaking it in using basic ammo made at home. I bought a 500 round case of Federal Gold Medal long ago and have been preparing the once fired cases. Of course almost all of these needed trimming. Many showed extensive brass flow due to high pressure. So did the powder measure at Federal drop too much powder or was the excessive overall length the problem ?

I mentioned this to tempt you crafty rifle builders to consider loading your own tuned ammunition. Of course ammo made for semi auto long term storage ammo should be made to preform well in various rifles. Since the ammo may be on the shelf long after the original rifle is gone.

Good luck on your builds. I hope I can give it a try some day.
 
In my experience of shooting when it really matters and being shot at....
Andy, being a connoisseur and sporting user of rifles that are 150 years old or more, does this give you insight into the long term effects of quality in a firearm? Easily half my tools are my age or older, and I sincerely appreciate their sturdiness and quality when I use them.

This is like someone buying a hammer at harbor frieght , using twice a decade and then going to a forum of carpenters and telling them all his hammer is as good as theirs despite the fact they drive more nails in an hour then he does in a decade.
Fixed it. :D
Yep, I've seen more heads fly off cheap hammers....
Also had hammers so out of spec they slip off disco on reset... real safe.
My experience with DPMS. Or get cockeyed and won't release properly. Bearing surface in hammer loose on pin. In short, JUNK.
 
Before Firearms News it was Shotgun News. Back in those days they did an article about AR lowers. They had all the lowers in three classes:

High end quality receivers
Mid Tier lowers
Budget receivers

Of course your Daniel Defense, BCM, LMT, and POF were high end; Aero, Spike, and believe it or not, the Anderson lowers were Mid Tier. Omni, and Frontier were junk.

I built an AR lower with a PWA lower and LMT upper. That thing was so tight that it took two of us and a rubber mallet to get the handguards on. PWA was LMT before LMT bought them out. So, admittedly those are really built to close tolerances. However, I once built an AR for a SHTF weapon from existing parts I owned. It was an Aero upper and lower with a Sionics barrel, Toolcraft nickle boron BCG, Troy rail and sights, Smith vortex flash hider, and a PSA enhanced trigger group. In every respect those rifles were equal as best as I could tell, but when money was tight, the PWA was the first to go.

Anyway, before building another AR, I really want to know what makes a Daniel Defense BCM or any other high end weapon any better than those you can build for a third less. The only AR that seems to be worth the price difference to me is the POF. There is a difference in their piston AR. But, when I'm using high quality 4150 chrome lined barrels (MPI inspected, etc.), quality nickle boron BCGs, good triggers, and other high end parts, what am I getting difference over the top tier DI firearms? Tacticool looks? Name brand? BTW, have you ever gone to Sionics website and witnessed what kinds of abuse their barrels can take?

I really am ignorant. I've never had 2 grand to drop on any firearm all at once. Ended up with that in a couple over the course of a year and a half. But, my favorite build has yet to malfunction except once on bad ammo. Rapid fire, don't clean it, and it still holds just over 1 inch groups at 50 yards with iron sights. What would I get in difference to plunk down the big bucks?
The problem is there are 2 types of "high end" currently produced and marketed. One is quality manufactured for hard use and the other is....looks cool. Lightening cuts, cool designs and aesthetic appeal make up the latter and proven durability at high round counts and low catastrophic failure rate make up the former. Some companies go the extra distance to make sure their products are durable. Colt was actually one of these companies for a long time but most AR enthusiasts bubblegum on them now because they lack innovation. The question is how much innovation can the AR platform handle without sacrificing hard use durability?
 
"Hardcore operators", good gravy I hope that's sarcasm. Same bubblegum I've seen on the firing line and the high road.why don't you pull out your bubblegum and measure it, whoever has the longest is the king. Long live the king.
 
"Hardcore operators", good gravy I hope that's sarcasm. Same bubblegum I've seen on the firing line and the high road.why don't you pull out your bubblegum and measure it, whoever has the longest is the king. Long live the king.
Hey, that will make the ones with 20"ers feel better about themselves!:D
 
Andy, being a connoisseur and sporting user of rifles that are 150 years old or more, does this give you insight into the long term effects of quality in a firearm? Easily half my tools are my age or older, and I sincerely appreciate their sturdiness and quality when I use them.

I think that in times past the quality of a firearm and the quality of work that went into a firearm and its production was of a high quality ...as a general rule.
The Trade guns and trade rifles that were made for use in the fur trade were in some respects superior , than today's replicas.
Its important to remember that in the 18th and 19th centuries....the word "cheap" . just meant less expensive...not a sign of lesser quality per se .

Also take a look at the Remington and Smith Corona 03A3 rifles....
Stamped parts and often 2 groove "button" rifling....rough stocks...but I would rather have one of those than many of today's budget sporting rifles , in terms of fit , finish , workmanship , and overall appearance.

To me many of today's firearms have a "throwaway" look and feel about them....as in its easier and cheaper to just junk or part out a broken new gun ...and buy a new one , rather than try to fix and replace the broken part.
Andy
 
I look at putting an AR together about the same way I would a 4x4.
If you use it hard enough, long enough you quickly see what breaks down and what could be an improvement.
Get serious and start playing the game and you find out which are the junk parts and the good stuff to look out for. And of course the ever popular because it looks cool stuff.
The PSA upper kit I got had a take down pin that was out of spec. Yep, that was irritating and something that I'll keep in mind when I go to buy another LPK.
Cars, guns, ETC, I have a tendency to spend way more building than just buying built. Anything bought factory doesn't stay that way long.
And it always starts out small.

In this day and age the selection of AR's and AR parts is pretty large.
In the end it's whoever that's shooting it that will determine if it is good enough for 1,000 rounds in it's lifetime or 1,000 rounds a day.

Regularly inspecting any gun you shoot a lot should be a common practice whether it's a low end budget or not.
Being able to identify a problem early on and correct it is crucial to the overall longevity of anything you use.
If you buy cheap stuff be prepared to thoroughly inspect it often and replace stuff.
If you prefer piece of mind and play hard, then buy known quality goods and motor on.
In the end it's all preferences and expectations, realistic or not.

Whoohoo. The Big Brown Truck just dropped off more AR parts.. See ya
 
My sons high school buddy had a Bushmaster that shot as accurate as my Noveske. The kid didn't want to spend close to $2 grand on a rifle. Can't blame him. He got a rifle that was fun to shoot cause he liked shooting. He monkeyed with it to get it up to snuff and it was both accurate and reliable. (ie, no jams)

I support that X10. Better to have a cheap AR than no AR. In fact, the difference between the $500 S&W and the $1600 is fairly minimal for the money you pay to get there.

As far as tossing any rifle into a dumpster that gets 1.5 or more MOA, please advise where that dumpster is as I'll be diving into it.
 

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