"Cheap" versus High End ARs

[Flopsweat]

Geez, what are you guys doing to your ARs that you keep breaking parts? Maybe I just have too many of them and spread the wear out, but I haven't broken anything.

 

[titsonritz]

Yea, they are my favorite Ambi-AR that I have personal experience with. But, you do pay for it. I have their Raptor CH and Talon selector on every other AR I own as well.

The Raptor is my go to CH, have one G Airborne but prefer the Radian. Was given a free one from the the Radian crew at that armorers class I mentioned, that was extra cool. I have a mix of Talon and BADASS/CASS selectors, still can't decide which I like best, they both have their strong point.

 

[JBSTRD]

The Raptor is my go to CH, have one G Airborne but prefer the Radian. Was given a free one from the the Radian crew at that armorers class I mentioned, that was extra cool. I have a mix of Talon and BADASS/CASS selectors, still can't decide which I like best, they both have their strong point.

Man, I wish the Radian crew would attend an armorers class that I'm at, haha! Very cool.

Yea, the BADASS selectors are top notch too. I think the Talons nudge them out slightly in my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions?

 

[OldTengu]

I have:
Rugers
PSAs
The Rugers are better overall, however one required a new BCG, as, was noted in another thread I started and don't care to look for, was a semi-auto bolt carrier group that was somehow beating it's firing pin up. Ruger sent a proper replacement, that has had thousands of rounds through and doesn't seem to have any issue. But, it has a PSA bolt carrier for general use.
I have never had issues with the PSA stuff.
More expensive Ruger provided worse results, with good CS follow-up.
PSA has provided 100% results, but I have not needed to utilize the CS.
Whether entry lever or high end, customer service is key.

 

[Curt2933]

I wouldn't call pof top tear. Maybe a top tear paint job. Just get a bcm or a dd or a colt and buy ammo and train.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

Hopefully, for your money you're getting durability and reliability in what everyone likes to call "austere conditions". Hopefully you're paying for excellent QC along with the quality. Some people buy $40 Anderson lowers and uppers and shoot maybe 1k through them in their entire ownership, as range toys and that's totally sufficient for that use. Other people, like me, put 1k through them per month at least and don't own "toys". As a lefty, the high end's full ambi stuff is very appealing. Although its proprietary, and nothing a Forward Controls mag release and a Radian safety can't fix for much cheaper than a LMT Mars lower or one of Radian's. They're extremely well built, ill give them that. Expensive doesn't always mean quality, and there's a finite number of features you can physically put on a lower/upper. Many people think "There's not enough bells and whistles in the world to make that lower worth $350". You're paying for material quality, R&D and a lot of other things that need to be developed to bring that product to market. Conversely, you could be SMOS and make NOVESKE's OEM parts while they slap their name on it. Many people like myself don't own or trust their life to something that hasn't been thoroughly vetted personally, is synonymous with "budget" or "hobby grade" or considered "range toy".

 

[StacattoP]

Brandon covered it fairly well. If you're going to have a lower budget AR is more than likely going to sit in your room and not have many rounds going through it.If you're in any type of application such as law enforcement military or you train in multiple classes you should go for more of a top-tier quality. If you can't afford top-tier quality then get whatever you can and that should suffice. It all really comes down to the application. Also like Brandon mentioned if you are a lefty sometimes you have to pay a little more to get a rifle working for you.

 

[UnderFire]

The receiver to me is the least crucial part of an AR, especially the lower. It's kind of just the shell that makes everything else work together. I'd compare it to the cab of a truck, it does not have a function but is still necessary to operate.

Because of this as long as all the parts fit correctly into the receivers nothing else really matters. Even then some small issues can be smoothed out by the end user.

The difference is price tiers in receivers is typically low priced cast, mid priced forged and high priced billet. All very different processes, but none that affect the aluminum in any way that would be either detrimental or beneficial to the function or safety of a receiver.

The issues people will have with lower end cast parts is a lack of finish quality after casting, with the progressively more messy casting over the lifespan of a mold, where as a forged receiver will be closer to finished and more precise when done, and a billet receiver comes right out of the mill ready to go.

 

[ron]

A name brand lower will make your build more valuable if you have to sell it. I have heard Anderson lowers work fine but
know of two people that had problems. I have never owned an exspensive lower. I have been shooting Highpower competition
for 30 years. The 2 major rifle builders are White Oak Arms, (WOA) and Compass Lake Engineering (CLE) for Highpower Competition.
These builders use Rock River upper and lower receivers. Highpower is about accuracy and reliability. Billet receivers are not
legal in 'Service Rifle' class. Barrel and trigger are the most important components. I have Colt, Rock Rivers, S&W, YHM,
Bushmaster lowers. My Rock River lowers fit nice and tight on all my uppers. Colt not so tight as others? S&W and YHM
lowers are top notch works great. I don't know what you get for the extra doe for a high end DD, LMT, POF......? But I would
rather spend that money on a Geissele trigger and a Krieger barrel.

Compass Lake Engineering, LLC

Best choice of rifles, barrels, accessories and custom work!

compasslake.com

White Oak Armament | Quality Parts for Competitive and Casual Shooters

Looking for parts or accessories for your rifle? White Oak Armament is the destination for quality parts for competitive and recreational marksmen.

www.whiteoakarmament.com

 

[BrandonQuixote]

Keep in mind this is a SINGLE data point, but I've actually broken a billet upper- over a year ago. I was shooting one morning and felt a "give" in the hand guard. When I pulled it away from my face, it separated and I realized something catastrophic occurred. The take down pin hole in the upper snapped off the upper. The company was shocked at the failure when they saw it. To their credit, it was immediately replaced, free of charge. The current replacement upper has had the piss shot out of it, 15k rounds at least. It, along with the lower were from their very first batch of receivers and perhaps a defect in the block of aluminum or other anomaly caused it. The lower is still going strong, close to 20k+ later. I won't say who's set it was, but they were VERY good to me, always have been and wish no-ill will or bad publicity on them. Just be aware that even with high end, expensive billet sets, they CAN break. I'm not advocating cheaping-out or telling your Anderson is "just as good". There's simply no substitute for vetting your gear and sometimes shiit breaks.

 

[StacattoP]

Keep in mind this is a SINGLE data point, but I've actually broken a billet upper- over a year ago. I was shooting one morning and felt a "give" in the hand guard. When I pulled it away from my face, it separated and I realized something catastrophic occurred. The take down pin hole in the upper snapped off the upper. The company was shocked at the failure when they saw it. To their credit, it was immediately replaced, free of charge. The current replacement upper has had the piss shot out of it, 15k rounds at least. It, along with the lower were from their very first batch of receivers and perhaps a defect in the block of aluminum or other anomaly caused it. The lower is still going strong, close to 20k+ later. I won't say who's set it was, but they were VERY good to me, always have been and wish no-ill will or bad publicity on them. Just be aware that even with high end, expensive billet sets, they CAN break. I'm not advocating cheaping-out or telling your Anderson is "just as good". There's simply no substitute for vetting your gear and sometimes shiit breaks.

View attachment 678724View attachment 678726

Holy smokes crazy!!!!

 

[oli700]

Some folks have a rifle built for war that they only hope to take to the range , other folks have a rifle built for the range they hope to never take to war . Don't build a superficial AR , invest in the unseen, a good home builder can build just as good or better as a factory if you have the right parts,right tools, right building details and do all the little things that matter ,that ones no one sees .....no short cuts.

 

[MannyGlocks]

In many cases those who buy cheap/get cheap.

Simple as that, but sure justify how high end AR's aren't worth the money and buying low end AR's shows just how smart you are.

Color me: Unconvinced!

What's the that gun cliche?

Buy once - Cry once?

 

[Fishinabbl]

Thank you gentlemen this is the most interesting thread I have read on this site. My experience is that the manufacturing quality comes from 4 main processes: using superior materials, changing tool bits sufficiently often to maintain accuracy of cut and finish, then cruel inspection to tight tolerances, and lastly correct heat treatment. In general when parts break before their design lifetime it is because the annealing was incorrect or heat treatment was just wrong. Quality costs more. I think experience of competition shooters is the best indicator of quality unless they are sponsored and have professional armorers working their equipment.

 

[American123]

Video of the cheapest PSA offering going 5000 rounds Just an auxiliary data point.

 

[Member 53328]

In many cases those who buy cheap/get cheap.

Simple as that, but sure justify how high end AR's aren't worth the money and buying low end AR's shows just how smart you are.

Color me: Unconvinced!

What's the that gun cliche?

Buy once - Cry once?

Or spend less. And use the rest on training and ammo..... some people don't have the kind of money to buy super high end. The marine corps doesn't use "sub moa" guns and they win wars. Sure if you're shooting out past 700 yards you may want something nicer but what's the point of a .223/5.56 at that range? If you wanna use the "buy once, cry once" than apply it to optics. I will agree with you on that. I'm not saying buy PSA or Anderson but you don't need a radian, Barrett, DD, or knights. Walk the middle ground. And the average shooter isn't going to put enough rounds through the gun in their lifetime to even have it matter. More than likely the high end gun is just like your fancy car in the driveway. A status symbol in a specific community.

 

[Koda]

It all comes down to buying the best you can afford, but I will never critisize anyone for buying what they could afford. High end doesnt always mean quality either the most expensive gun I own took 4 trips under warrenty and still had to be replaced completely....

 

[Member 53328]

It all comes down to buying the best you can afford, but I will never critisize anyone for buying what they could afford. High end doesnt always mean quality either the most expensive gun I own took 4 trips under warrenty and still had to be replaced completely....

Agreed. I'd rather have cheap than nothing at all.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Lemons come in all products from vehicles to guns.

Funny thing, I won't buy an Aimpoint optic or equivalent.

Screw that.

There's plenty of optics for far less cost with good enough quality.

So, now I'm using the the 'low end' argument for optics many reserve for their low end AR's.

I guess it all balances out...

 

[Member 53328]

Lemons come in all products from vehicles to guns.

Funny thing, I won't buy an Aimpoint optic or equivalent.

Screw that.

There's plenty of optics for far less cost with good enough quality.

So, now I'm using the the 'low end' argument for optics many reserve for their low end AR's.

I guess it all balances out...

Agree to disagree. I hope you have a quality pair of BUIS when you optic fails. J/K..... LOL.