Poll: CHARGED: Spokane car theft suspect shot dead: Was it legal?

[slimmer13]

You think he is a piece of crap because he is a repeat offender so you would rather have him dead?

Yep.

 

[Phillyfan]

To each his own, I guess. We'll just agree to disagree on this point.

 

[slimmer13]

I am sick of people who live by victimizing others. The severety of the crimes perpetrated by these repeat offenders often increase.

Who knows, his death might have prevented this from happening in the future...

The graphic artist died just a few blocks from his home, on his way home from Safeway where he bought a dozen eggs for his wife Renee when he was hit by ex-convict Brian Storms as he was trying to elude a Spokane police officer.

<broken link removed>

Or maybe you are right and he might have beat the odds and turned his life around. Who knows.

Under the letter of the WA st law, the shooter was wrong, but you wont see me shed a tear for this guy. There is one less predator running the streets of the city that my kids live in.

 

[Phillyfan]

Well, we'll never know either way now.

I don't mean to seem like a bleeding heart. I just put property crime in a different category, not that thieves should be dealt with lightly by any means. Just think the death penalty is a little too far.

Now when you start to talk about rapists, pedaphiles, and child abusers? I have a completely different view. To me there are crimes less than murder that deserve the death penalty.

 

[pchewn]

Under the letter of the WA st law, the shooter was wrong, but you wont see me shed a tear for this guy.

I'm not so sure the shooter was wrong under WA st law. The actual applicable law might be this: (Justifiable to stop a felony against the shooter in the presence of the shooter). Car theft is a felony.....

9A.16.050
Homicide &#8212; By other person &#8212; When justifiable.
Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

RCW 9A.56.065
Theft of motor vehicle.

(1) A person is guilty of theft of a motor vehicle if he or she commits theft of a motor vehicle.

(2) Theft of a motor vehicle is a class B felony.

 

[pchewn]

The title of the poll poses a different question from the title of the thread .....


Thread: Spokane car theft suspect shot dead: Was it legal?
In my opinion, yes, it was legal (see reference to WA state law on justified homicide when the dead guy is committing a felony.)

POLL: Should shooting auto thieves be considered justified?
In my opinion, yes.

 

[John H]

And how exactly is the world a better place now? Really? Do we really have to answer that.

Who are we to decide that this guy isn't worth giving a chance to turn his life around? You think he is a piece of crap because he is a repeat offender so you would rather have him dead?

People only get so many chances in life, maybe he used his up. There is no guarantee you will keep getting chances, Karma might catch up to you first.

 

[slimmer13]

The law seems awfully vague. I was under the impression that deadly force was justifiable in this state when in your home or while stopping a violent felony like an armed robbery etc. It will be interesting how this turns out.

 

[pchewn]

The law seems awfully vague. I was under the impression that deadly force was justifiable in this state when in your home or while stopping a violent felony like an armed robbery etc. It will be interesting how this turns out.

What part of the law seems vague to you? It seems clear to me that it is justifiable because:
A) The bad guy was stealing a car
B) Stealing a car is a felony in Washington.
C) The victim was present when the car was being stolen.
D) WA law provides for justifiable homicide when the shooter is present while a felony is being performed against him.

What is vague about that?

 

[Rotty]

Use the minimum amount of force necessary to end the threat. Anything beyond that is excessive.

Is it worth killing someone who is stealing property? My opinion "No". Stuff I can replace. Is it worth killing someone to protect self or others "yes" but only after you exhausted all other means of ending the threat. Situations can escalate and deescalte quickly, being alert to the changing circumstances can certainly mean the difference between a "Justified Homicide" and "Manslaugher".

 

[Misterbill]

I'm not so sure the shooter was wrong under WA st law. The actual applicable law might be this: (Justifiable to stop a felony against the shooter in the presence of the shooter). Car theft is a felony.....

OK, you need to understand this RIGHT NOW. Felony upon a person. that doesn't mean any felony in your presence, it means a felony UPON YOUR PERSON.

Further, this has been clarified by case law to mean there must me imminent danger of grievous bodily harm upon you or someone else.

If you shoot someone because they committed a property crime in your presence, you WILL be prosecuted and you WILL be convicted.

However you feel about it, that's the law. It's quite unambiguous. Simply reading the statute doesn't tell you a lot when it's been shaped as ours has by decades of case law clarifying it. and you are MIS-reading it, BADLY.

If you don't believe me, and still value your freedom, check with a lawyer. I'm passing this interpretation on which HAS been vetted by criminal lawyers in Washington.

 

[slimmer13]

What is vague about that?

This part:

in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

And in this instance, has the felony already been committed? And if it has, is it justifiable to use deadly force once the vehicle has been stolen and the suspect is driving away? Can the police legaly shoot anyone driving a stolen car whenever one is located using licence plate reading technology?

 

[pchewn]

Well, if it is my car and someone steals it, then the crime has been committed upon me. Seems pretty clear.

 

[Rotty]

The title of the poll poses a different question from the title of the thread .....


Thread: Spokane car theft suspect shot dead: Was it legal?
In my opinion, yes, it was legal (see reference to WA state law on justified homicide when the dead guy is committing a felony.)

POLL: Should shooting auto thieves be considered justified?
In my opinion, yes.

Get the rope! We hang horse thieves around these here parts.

 

[Rotty]

What part of the law seems vague to you? It seems clear to me that it is justifiable because:
A) The bad guy was stealing a car
B) Stealing a car is a felony in Washington.
C) The victim was present when the car was being stolen.
D) WA law provides for justifiable homicide when the shooter is present while a felony is being performed against him.

What is vague about that?

Please don't represent me in court.

 

[speeddemon94]

Seriously though, the real problem here is the lack of punishment for repeat criminals. These guys belong on the end of a rope. Instead, we leave them free, while restricting our own behavior (private gun sales, locks, mistrust). We make our day-to-day lives a "jail" because they are free.

This.

Imagine how much better our society would be if the possible consequence for a rotten thief was that they may be shot. They used to deal with horse thieves that way, the "car" of the day.

Criminals can do their deed and either get away with it, or be sent to prison for three hots and a cot, until they are released due to overcrowding. In which case they get away with it anyhow.

If you commit a crime you should have to be prepared to reap what you've sown. Unfortunately the law protects criminals and restricts law abiding citizens.

 

[Redcap]

Get the rope! We hang horse thieves around these here parts.

 

[Riot]

Although I'll be the 1st Person to agree that our justice system isn't perfect (the fact alone that just a few months ago this guy assaulted a sheriffs deputy with a knife and was free enough to steal this car in the 1st place) but we can't just dish out our own brand of justice, shooting people in our driveways and claiming that they were attempting to steal something in the process to justify it is a list for disaster.

So, can you shoot someone for stealing your car?

This isn't a yes or no, cut and dry answer. Motor homes with everything you own? Child in the carseat? He's driving towards you? You're in the car when they try? What if you just saw them get into a wreck, possibly injuring another person, then try to steal your car and flee the scene?

Otherwise- a guy stealing your car is not justification for killing them any more than a kid stealing the bike on your front lawn is. Period. You can argue all you want about it being your "livelihood" but I'll argue to take a bus, carpool or hit up Craigslist for a junker.

Lastly...I'm not saying you can't beat this guy into submission before the police get there, I'm saying you can't ventilate someone because you're pissed that this oxygen thief is making a living off of your hard work. We all know that this world wouldn't miss another meathead. Regardless, we live in a society that allows every suspect to have their day in court. We are all not judge, jury & executioner just because we own firearms and decide to adopt a sheepdog mentality. With all force we must use restraint and good judgement. Think before you act, especially before you reach for the gun when you hear a crash in the middle of the night.

 

[Silver Hand]

It depends on how far I had to walk if he got away.

Seriously, No if my life or someone other than myself is not in jeopardy for there life, I would not even consider drawing my firearm over a stolen vehicle. I would draw my cell phone and dial 911.
Silver Hand

 

[deen_ad]

Use the minimum amount of force necessary to end the threat. Anything beyond that is excessive.

Is it worth killing someone who is stealing property? My opinion "No". Stuff I can replace. Is it worth killing someone to protect self or others "yes" but only after you exhausted all other means of ending the threat. Situations can escalate and deescalte quickly, being alert to the changing circumstances can certainly mean the difference between a "Justified Homicide" and "Manslaugher".

I agree with this one. Not that it matters though!

Deen
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member & Recruiter
Washington Arms Collectors Member
SouthWest Washington Arms Collectors Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member