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Ok here is possible partial solution to bugging out but its a short range idea. Vehicles will have limitations so looking at motor cycles like the Kawasaki KLR could offer quick immediate bug out. Outfitted right it, offers you a decent range with the potential to carry a moderate personal load. This only works though depending on your family group situation. If you have kids or anyone who can't ride its basically a no go. The range for those bikes are something like 300-400 miles and there are special models for those who would hunt them down that the military have designed to run on almost any type of fuel. At least escaping the urban grid lock will be easier with a motorcycle.
 
A lot of the pictures and the scenarios you guys are specifically addressing are localized, immediate natural disasters (mainly Katrina). Bugging out is always a challenge...but so is bugging in.

If you do decide to hunker down with your provisions, you have to accept the risks there as well. People won't just crawl into a ball and die...once food get's scarce I can assure you door-to-door confrontation is in order. First it will be with empty hands out, asking for help...next it will be by force willing to take what you have for their own good.

Katrina is a good example and a poor one at the same time. Is anyone going to sit here and say that everyone that decided to bug out was a moron? Hardly. Many people made it out because they actually listened to the warnings of the media. But many also waited until the levy broke before they packed up and hit the streets. Who do you think was better off?

There are also many stories about people who stayed, even after the levy broke just to bug out once the looting got bad.

My suggestion? Even if you are dead set on bugging out you should plan for having to stay bugged in and shelter in place. Nevertheless, even if you plan on being bugged in you should also plan to bug out. Why? Because nobody...I say again- NOBODY knows what will happen or when it will happen. We can only guess and plan for that best guess. Even then things can change in an instant and go from bad to worse. You should never have all your eggs in one basket, that's the only certainty when dealing with TEOWAWKI.
 
Personally, it will depend on what I do.

If I see it far enough in advance and I am still located where I am, I will bugout while 99%R's are sitting there watching CNN or MSNBC telling them everything is going to be ok.

Hopefully I will get a transfer by then that I have requested and will be where I want to be and just sit tight and watch everyone else in a city go nuts.

If I am still located where I am and hits before I see it, I will do one of two things leave immediately and pray i am ahead of the crowd or stay put for a period of time and then when it feels right, group together with some others for security and go, and go like heck and anyone who gets in the way, well I will just have to deal with them with extreme prejudice.
 
To build on skydiver's observations...

An aircraft or helicopter has a relatively small "useful load". This is the total amount of weight that it can carry, and usually includes fuel. Moreover, there is a finite amount of physical space. Sure there are larger aircraft out there, but many private pilots are typically capable of flying an aircraft with 4-6 seats.

If the world went to *bubblegum* I suppose I could personally steal an aircraft (that I was type-rated for and comfortable piloting) and fly the family to somewhere. I wouldn't be comfortable stealing it. I would also be landing somewhere with no plan, minimal or no supplies, and no real idea about what was happening there.

Peter (also a private pilot)

DallesPort air strip on the Wa side of The Dalles
 
Please share what you see as the mostly likely challenges in Bugging Out. I'm not looking for a debate about bugging out vs buggin in; but just want everyone's thoughts on most likely challenges--or things to be ready for--in the event of bugging out becomes necessary.
thanks

I feel the biggest challenge is not knowing WHY you would be bugging out. What chaos has the incident created and from what direction? What routes it has blocked? Has even small bridges shifted or collapsed? Powerlines or Bonneville lines down? There is no way I want to be close to the Convention Center in PDX if a good earthquake happened. Glass popped from that thing would be sent flying everywhere and farther than you would think. Huge earthquake like Japan? See all that twisted metal and sharp pokey stuff? When I did SAR, I had leather boots for my search dog even. Ever have metal slice your thick leather boots before? I am not so sure most vehicle tires will go over that stuff. Might want to have 2 spare tires with you. What about liquidification of the soil?

Bugging in or bugging out? Gas lines compromised? Ever seen a glass line after it has blown up? The one I have been out to for Olympic Pipeline (maybe it was NW Pipeline), a pinhole caused a 1/4 mile gouge long, a couple hundred feet wide and I forgot how deep and the ground had all turned to glass. That pinhole was caused by the earth shifting a bit.

Power off? Don't the sewers in town run at the downhill side on electricity? Will they eventually back up and cause issues? Higher population density and riots or thieving? Most people are inheritantly good and would help each other, but then there are always those few bad apple people. Panic is the largest issue from the populace. I once went after a hunter who got lost and he panicked. He ripped all his clothes off, crossed a chest high creek five times and when we asked him why he went across the creek so many times, he replied, "What creek?" People are funny creatures.

I believe you cannot plan for any one incident. I also believe in Murphy's Law if an incident happens. No matter what you plan for, it will be screwed up at some point. You just stay rational, regroup, make do and get creative. But if you need to sit down on rock, cry for 5 minutes and get up and go on.. you do that too.

As one example of a situation:
In this particular situation I have been on 2 hour evacuation notice a few times. The interesting thing was I was in the "PERFECT BOL", the place that everyone dreams of as a BOL, was my permanent home. I would not have been able to go to where most people would have thought as a BOL into the forest away from populated areas for the reason of wildfire and I was already there. For safety I would have had to go into our small town where there was concrete, fire personnel and two major rivers between me and the fires. Not one fire.. MANY fires which generally happened overnight. So much smoke half the summer, that you could not tell if there was a new fire or an older fire, a far fire in Siberia (not kidding -- we had smoke from Siberia for weeks) or 2 miles away. With one radio station only and even if I had a TV, the news would never have mentioned the fires even at 190,000+ acres burning. In fact, they did not generally send in bush firefighters unless it was heading to infrastructures like a town. The government lets it burn. People out in the bush were not counted as infrastructure up there. Cell phones did not work. You had a land line or you had satellite phones. So in that kind of a case, my BOL was from the wilderness to a 'concrete jungle'.

The only reason I knew I was on 2 hour evacuation notice was I had an 'in' with forestry in town and I called my friend every single hour around the clock for days and days. Needless to say I baked her a huge chocolate cake as a thank you after it was all over with.

My largest challenge there was 75 head of livestock. Thankfully the 2 hour evacuation notice never was the 'go'. It was just the warning that we may have to evacuate. If you could even get all those animals loaded up in 2 hours.. where do you take them? Which fences do you cut to hopefully give them the best chance? When I went out Morel mushroom picking few months later (they come up great in burn areas), I found the jawbones and pelvises of 6 cattle who got stuck in the fire due to fencing. All other bones burnt up.

Travel by vehicle? Fine and dandy if the two roads in and out were not blocked. It was close in some areas further from me when I was traveling and I have driven by with fire on both sides of the road before, barely able to breathe. One summer we had 800 wildfires. Have to plan on not being able to take a truck.. ok.. cannot outrun a wildfire, what is the most direct route to the river (it is a major river) by our horses? Are there gates? Do we have to cut range fences? Can we ride the trails often enough we can do it in the light or the dark? Will the horses spook or balk? Will that silly mare cross water if there is a fire on her backside?

Each season I have a different game plan. Winter has different traveling scenarios than summer. I choose three methods of transportation in each season and a minimum of three routes. I always plan I will be on foot for the worst case scenario. Anything better than on foot, is icing on the cake. I have 4 BOL's at this point. I don't own a single one of them. Each is a place which is a place to gain safety for the moment, regroup and consider the scenario and plan onwards from there.

I don't want to own a BOL, as it limits me and fences me in. I don't want the mindset of "I need to get to my BOL". What if my BOL was in Wasco County and the Richland Reactor has a major issue there? Apparently their "Worst Case Scenario" is 21,300 casualties and $78 Billion in property damage.

Another challenge is to always think 'outside the box' and be able to switch gears and fly by the seat of your pants. Not everyone can do this easily. Some people have a very linear way of thinking and have to do A-B-C-D-E-ect. and not A-H-E-V-Z-W-ect. I don't know if a person can learn to be less linear or not.

So since my thinking is we do not know why we have to bug out until it actually happens, to keep your options open and go with the flow.

Cedar
 
I think people should drop the term bugout. You are not bugging out, you are evacuating, and have now become a homeless, jobless person with no address. You are not going to live off the land, you are going to apply for government aid. You will be viewed as a parasite, refugee, or bum. That is what you will face in anything short of total collapse. In this scenario the most important bugout gear is copies of all your relevant documents, accounts, credit cards, and phone #s etc... Take some time think through the 99 most likely SHTF events, like your house burning down and prep for that because that is most likely what will effect you at some point in life. After that you can move toward the exotic but chances are you will still use more TP in a disaster than bullets.
 
I think people should drop the term bugout. You are not bugging out, you are evacuating, and have now become a homeless, jobless person with no address. You are not going to live off the land, you are going to apply for government aid. You will be viewed as a parasite, refugee, or bum. That is what you will face in anything short of total collapse. In this scenario the most important bugout gear is copies of all your relevant documents, accounts, credit cards, and phone #s etc... Take some time think through the 99 most likely SHTF events, like your house burning down and prep for that because that is most likely what will effect you at some point in life. After that you can move toward the exotic but chances are you will still use more TP in a disaster than bullets.

You got your Collective Utopia
I got something different in mind, and you aint in it
(insert non-discrimitory, non-class based, non-gender based, non-Transgender based, non-religious based, non-scensed based middle finger here)
 
You got your Collective Utopia
I got something different in mind, and you aint in it
(insert non-discrimitory, non-class based, non-gender based, non-Transgender based, non-religious based, non-scensed based middle finger here)

And spin on it

Contrary to your internal belife system, you'll have to murder way more than 10% of the US population. I know you are more than ready to do so,,,but not up close,,,not where you'd actually get blood on your tunic.

Think about that, and read "The Bullet's Flight" 600 pages of hard math that proves that a bullet fired from X will arrive at Z even if it is a mile away, 2 miles away, even 5 miles away.
 
I think people should drop the term bugout. You are not bugging out, you are evacuating, and have now become a homeless, jobless person with no address. You are not going to live off the land, you are going to apply for government aid. You will be viewed as a parasite, refugee, or bum. That is what you will face in anything short of total collapse. In this scenario the most important bugout gear is copies of all your relevant documents, accounts, credit cards, and phone #s etc... Take some time think through the 99 most likely SHTF events, like your house burning down and prep for that because that is most likely what will effect you at some point in life. After that you can move toward the exotic but chances are you will still use more TP in a disaster than bullets.

Hmm you are making a lot of assumptions but why would your assumptions be correct? The OP seems very realistic and aware of what it takes yet you devolved their self reliance and planning to make it seems like they would be waiting at the welfare office and a soup kitchen as the plan where I saw a person that shown well thought out preparedness and an amazingly articulate original post.

I challenge you to spend some time and stand your ground with a well though out and equally articulate defense of your position that the OP would basicaly be a "bum" on "government aid".
 
I think people should drop the term bugout. You are not bugging out, you are evacuating, .

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet ".. or something to that effect. Same thing, different term. BO is easier to say with 2 syllabyls than 5 for the other. I don't know, but suspect it is a military term, so blame it on them. I am just glad it is not an other acyronym, they always mess me up.


and have now become a homeless, jobless person with no address.

Not necessarily. Lots of people who have lost their homes tend to still go to work. They still have an address, as the post office holds their mail. They may have lost their job if something like a tornado took out their whole town or mass flooding has occurred.

You are not going to live off the land.

Some people like to do this even without an excuse. Have you ever tried Stinging Nettle Casserole? I highly recommend it.

you are going to apply for government aid.
Not all people do. Some don't as they have other resources or have put away for emergencies. Sometimes you cannot apply for government aid for one reason or another.

You will be viewed as a parasite, refugee, or bum.

Regardless of how one labels another, sometimes that label might be far away from the truth.

That is what you will face in anything short of total collapse.

Also not necessarily true. If it is a TOTAL COLLAPSE, there will be way too many people in the same boat, as it were. The only people who will be looking down on the majority are the ones who had resources to fall back on, or people who become 'carpetbaggers'.

In this scenario the most important bugout gear is copies of all your relevant documents, accounts, credit cards, and phone #s etc....

I agree that those things are important, but I have noted that things happen after business hours or on Sundays. Personally I would like to have warm clothes and some food as it may be days or weeks until the insurance company or other agencies call my number in the lineup. I would also like somewhere dry and warm to sleep.

Take some time think through the 99 most likely SHTF events, .

I think the most common events these days is divorce and losing your job. Both can be just as traumatic and disasterous as any of the other scenerios which could happen.

Cedar
 
I think people should drop the term bugout. You are not bugging out, you are evacuating, and have now become a homeless, jobless person with no address.

You are absolutely right...I'm getting as far away from tards like you as I possibly can.

You are not going to live off the land, you are going to apply for government aid.

I am? Well I'll probably be denied since I'm white anyways...oh and FYI I believe most of us will actually be bugging out because the government is no longer with us (or at least "bugged out" to some unknown utopia where only the Elite are invited).

You will be viewed as a parasite, refugee, or bum.

To whome? Mother Earth? Then, yeah...to you? I hope not since I hope to be as far away from you as possible. I don't think you get why we have chosen to bug out...we would rather live and die on our terms, not anyone else's. I truly am sorry that you feel this way. Maybe you've been playing that XBox too much? Love that smart phone and computer too much? I can let go of all these things (job, home, electricity) to live with me and mine safe from tards like you...the Golden Hoard of people waiting for the government to make everything better and right again.

What's that? A knock on the door? A man in a strange uniform is asking you to come with him if you want food? Sounds like fun!

That is what you will face in anything short of total collapse. In this scenario the most important bugout gear is copies of all your relevant documents, accounts, credit cards, and phone #s etc...

Got to let that stuff go, man. While I agree (and have done so myself) to plan for no collapse at all, I even have aforementioned copies of documents in a safety deposit box at my bank- just in case! This is what all "preppers" should account for. Localized disasters, immediate disasters, short term disasters, long term disasters, etc. Nevertheless you need to prep. You need to be willing to let go of those credit cards and fancy cars and accept the fact that you may never be able to go back to normalcy again. Otherwise you're just another sheep in the herd.

...chances are you will still use more TP in a disaster than bullets.

God I hope so...that means my snares are working!
 
Dear lord people the OP asked for thoughts on possible difficulties bugging out Im tossing out some possibles not discussed or thought about much. Be more flexible in your thinking, that's what keeps you alive.

My appologies. It did not read well in that light. Re-reading it, I can see what you were trying to do.

Cedar
 

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