Center of Mass Myth's

[JRV]

It appears Pincus has bashed himself, he didn't need any help doing that.

Comparing what most LEO's get thru their dept. vs any outside training is comparing apples to oranges...how far is anyone going to get with that line of reasoning?

If all these LEO's got was a Pincus course and dept. training...then the old saying comes to mind...some people don't know, what they don't know.

The avg. LEO gets their quarterly qualification shoot, some less than that in a year...and that's about it. Then some so called guru comes in, shows them things they've never heard or seen before, and the drooling starts. I've seen it way too many times. But avg. LEO doesn't know the difference, as they read the gun rags and rely on dept. training, which in most cases falls way far short as there's no time or money for it.

One needs to slow down and think things thru, is the stuff being taught combat proven...some of Pincus thought processes are far from it.

And if he thinks throwing ones gun across the range is going to get a 'good' impression of his training, he's lucky someone doesn't make an impression on his face.

DBAC?

I'm not going to sit here and bicker back and forth with you over the internet about training or defend Rob's program or his actions.

We are never going to agree. Really doesn't bother me.

 

[Rob Pincus]

Just because they write books and have a knack for marketing themselves, doesn't always mean you're getting the best for your training dollar.

Agreed!

***

... The premise seemed intriguing, but after watching one of the guys on the show (whom I now know was Pincus) clear a house by himself, rapidly with little regard to potential threats, tell an armed intruder in a residence, at a distance of about 20 feet, without benefit of cover, "drop the weapon!" I concluded that I had nothing to learn from the show....

Not sure which episode that was... *might* have been the one where there is a home intruder and unsecured child at the other end of the house.... Honestly, it is the only scenario from this season of TBD that fits the partial description of the scenario. There are not many easy choices there, but it is a question that comes up frequently from viewers/students... It doesn't look like SWAT Team Stuff because most of our viewers aren't on SWAT Teams... and even the ones that are tend not to sleep in the same room with the rest of their team.

-RJP

(sorry for adding to the thread drift, btw.... but I thought that deserved clarification)

 

[ZeroRing]

Thanks for that (and welcome to our little corner of the country here).

 

[wichaka]

JRV, let's keep it civil here.

No need to take pot shots, I have not said anything against you. If it really doesn't bother you, then why take a stab at me? Which is why I edited your post.

I disagree with Robs techniques, and I can do that. I feel money could be spent better with other instructors.

 

[JRV]

JRV, let's keep it civil here.

No need to take pot shots, I have not said anything against you. If it really doesn't bother you, then why take a stab at me? Which is why I edited your post.

I disagree with Robs techniques, and I can do that. I feel money could be spent better with other instructors.

You took a pot shot and spoke about a program you have never attended a class in. That I happen to teach. So how exactly did you not take a pot shot?

 

[wichaka]

Reading Rob's articles, his book, as well as talking with others who have taken the class will give any potential student a feel for what to expect if one was to attend a class.

If his articles and other writings are felt to be a bit off in left field, then yes me thinks his class wouldn't be much different.

Anyone here would say the same thing. If they didn't get a good feeling about an instructor through his own words, as well as his actions, then why on earth would one want to plunk down hard earned money to attend the class?

 

[garripputo]

hmmmm seems some people here are open to new ideas and new methods of training... and others still carry their service revolver on their hip with their bullets in their pockets...

i guess that we could all go back to shooting weaver... an old dated method of shooting that has already been proven by many instructors as extremely inefficient!

personally i will be attending rob's 3 day class in vancouver in june... not because i want to go train with "the guy from tv" but because i am open to new ideas training wise. i have had the pleasure to train with both mas ayoob and clint smith... but i choose to spend my money on a class with rob now... he is the only person out their doing something innovative training wise... everyone else just seems to teach the same class as the next guy but they use different words.

i fully expect to get my moneys worth out of this class... not some repetitive law enforcement academy style training. i expect to gain another tool for my personal defense tool box.

i dont agree with some of the stuff that i was taught by ayoob, but i wont bash him for it i consider that poor form... i personally believe that each person should be allowed their own experience training wise, so they don't read too much into one aspect of the program, or more likely someone's personal problem with it. so i will jump down off my soap box, but as i jump off i will say poor form wichaka... don't bash a program you have never been a part of.

 

[JRV]

hmmmm seems some people here are open to new ideas and new methods of training... and others still carry their service revolver on their hip with their bullets in their pockets...

i guess that we could all go back to shooting weaver... an old dated method of shooting that has already been proven by many instructors as extremely inefficient!

personally i will be attending rob's 3 day class in vancouver in june... not because i want to go train with "the guy from tv" but because i am open to new ideas training wise. i have had the pleasure to train with both mas ayoob and clint smith... but i choose to spend my money on a class with rob now... he is the only person out their doing something innovative training wise... everyone else just seems to teach the same class as the next guy but they use different words.

i fully expect to get my moneys worth out of this class... not some repetitive law enforcement academy style training. i expect to gain another tool for my personal defense tool box.

i dont agree with some of the stuff that i was taught by ayoob, but i wont bash him for it i consider that poor form... i personally believe that each person should be allowed their own experience training wise, so they don't read too much into one aspect of the program, or more likely someone's personal problem with it. so i will jump down off my soap box, but as i jump off i will say poor form wichaka... don't bash a program you have never been a part of.

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion, well sometimes I see. Some people like antiquated and inefficient training methods and guns. To each there own.

 

[wichaka]

I applaud anyone who furthers their firearms training past basic academy stuff.

I am open to new ideas on combat shooting, I keep up on the new 'schtuff' being taught. Some is purely show to bring in students...oh that almighty dollar and how it drives things! Then there are ideas that are combat proven from those that have been there.

Speaking of service revolvers and weaver stance...who's bashing now?

Speaking of Ayoob, look at the some of the articles he's written..."Court proofing your trigger, X reasons for DAO (double action only) pistols...yet he routinely packs a 1911. I applaud Mas, he has marketed himself very well.

I ask a few simple questions;
Where are the instructors who have seen the elephant? That can learn from their experiences, and pass that on? Where are the instructors that sit down with those who have been in shootings, and take notes from their experiences? Where are the instructors who have sat with those who have been in shootings, while they cry uncontrollably? What instructors have attended many individual and group de-briefings after a shooting? Who are the instructors that have spent their life studying human behavior in actual street gunfights?

Many write books and articles, but very few have experienced the above first hand. Me thinks there's something seriously wrong with that, and that's poor form garripputo.

 

[garripputo]

(incase you didn't notice i was bashing them on purpose... they are dated... you pretty much only see revolvers as back ups in LE service... and the weaver has widely been replaced... talk to the instructors in Burien... they had so many post shooting debriefs of officers that started their engagement in the weaver and ended up shooting in an isosceles, that they have stopped training officers to use the weaver...)

mas, clint, and rob have all seen great success. i am sorry you don't agree with rob's training... but you obviously have his attention... he is here among us now... ask him a question... confront him... try to argue the facts with him... his philosophy or his success seems to be what you have the problem with... you can argue all you want with JRV and me, but you have rob's attention now, so bring it... lets hear it!

 

[wichaka]

Why must you lower yourself to cheap shots? I've not said anything against you, just Robs training...which anyone has a right to do so.

I made my points on what I see as bad training from Rob, if he wants to defend his training he can.

But I can not see anyone being able to defend throwing someones gun across the range.

Still trying to figure out why the both of you are so upset by this. I disagree with some training techniques, and you'd think I've insulted someones mother.

 

[wichaka]

On that note I am done.

I made my disagreements not only on training techniques, but what I feel is an inexcusable action by any instructor.

I have no axe to grind with Rob. Some points of his training were brought out by JRV, which I disagreed with. If I did not know anything about Rob or his trainings, I would not have been able to pick up Robs techniques in JRV's posts.

I do keep up on instructors from all over. I will continue to examine any training that I come across, and question it if need be. If everyone else decides just to go along with the flow, that's their right.

JRV & garripputo be well...watch your six, and fight on brothers.

 

[wichaka]

Unfortunately this thread run amok in its course, and in that I take the blame.