CCW with a medical marijuana card?

[pchewn]

In Oregon:

CHL is issued under OR state law.

Medical MJ cards are issued under OR state law.

The Medical MJ card "requirements" do not preclude people who have a CHL.
The CHL requirements asks about illegal drug use. MJ use is LEGAL in OREGON, with a Medical card. So you answer "no" to that question.

The OR Supreme court decided that Medical MJ cards are NOT a reason for denial of CHL.

Case closed, Federal law has nothing to do with it.

 

[duane black]

In Oregon:

CHL is issued under OR state law.

Medical MJ cards are issued under OR state law.

The Medical MJ card "requirements" do not preclude people who have a CHL.
The CHL requirements asks about illegal drug use. MJ use is LEGAL in OREGON, with a Medical card. So you answer "no" to that question.

The OR Supreme court decided that Medical MJ cards are NOT a reason for denial of CHL.

Case closed, Federal law has nothing to do with it.

4473 is where they can get you. Please take a look at the letter I posted. Never lie on a 4473, bad things can happen. Like sodomy in prison.



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[rur862]

Post Deleted.

 

[Bushman]

Move to WA, no card needed. That said, I don't partake. Not sure why, guess it's just not my thing.

 

[pchewn]

4473 is where they can get you. Please take a look at the letter I posted. Never lie on a 4473, bad things can happen.

Form 4473 is for buying a gun from an FFL, it has nothing to do with obtaining a CHL (in Oregon), or a Medical MJ card (in Oregon).

Buying a gun at a FFL != obtaining a CHL permit. They are independent and separate acts.


All of these can be done independently and separately:

Buying a gun from FFL.
Obtaining a Medical MJ card.
Actually using MJ
Obtaining a CHL.
Obtaining a handgun.
Carrying a concealed weapon

For example, I could get a Medical MJ card, never use MJ, get a CHL, never obtain a gun. OR
I could get a Medical MJ card, never use MJ, get a CHL, buy a gun from the FFL (saying "no" to the use of drugs), and then sometime later start using MJ.

 

[duane black]

Form 4473 is for buying a gun from an FFL, it has nothing to do with obtaining a CHL (in Oregon), or a Medical MJ card (in Oregon).

Buying a gun at a FFL != obtaining a CHL permit. They are independent and separate acts.

I understand your argument, read the last paragraph of the letter carefully...

Specifically the part about possessing firearms or ammunition...

The federal governments stance is you would be a prohibited person, its very clear and very concerning.

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[wolfcreek]

^ Just read the letter and I agree it is unequivocal.

 

[pchewn]

I still disagree....

I can easily obtain a Medical MJ card ..... and then proceed to NOT smoke M.J.
I can get a CHL and proceed NOT to own a gun.

I can get a passport without plans to "flee the country".
I can get driver's licence -- that does not mean I am actually going to drive a car.
I have a HAM radio license -- but I haven't transmitted on the HAM band in over 3 years

Having the permit is NOT proof of performing the action that the permit allows.

The original question was about getting CHL and Medical MJ card and not being in trouble with the law. It is unequivocal that this is allowed in Oregon, and Federal law has NOTHING to do with this.

You guys have turned it into a question about BUYING or OWNING a gun. That was not the original question.

 

[duane black]

I still disagree....

I can easily obtain a Medical MJ card ..... and then proceed to NOT smoke M.J.
I can get a CHL and proceed NOT to own a gun.

I can get a passport without plans to "flee the country".
I can get driver's licence -- that does not mean I am actually going to drive a car.
I have a HAM radio license -- but I haven't transmitted on the HAM band in over 3 years

Having the permit is NOT proof of performing the action that the permit allows.

The original question was about getting CHL and Medical MJ card and not being in trouble with the law. It is unequivocal that this is allowed in Oregon.

You guys have turned it into a question about BUYING or OWNING a gun. That was not the original question.

Just so you know, I have witnessed people much smarter than I debate this. It really boils down to one question.

Does a mmj card establish you are a user of the drug ?

I don't believe it does. On calguns a common argument is you could be a care giver that needs to transport the drug, you are not using the drug.

We are talking ca mmj cards here, this isn't real far fetched.

I will concede I turned it into buying or POSSESSING a firearm OR ammunition, hard to carry without one though, don't ya think ?



My only advice is to never mix the two, at the same time. Unless you want to be a test case ( we need one ), I got 5 on it...

Your defense that is...







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[mjbskwim]

Form 4473 is for buying a gun from an FFL, it has nothing to do with obtaining a CHL (in Oregon), or a Medical MJ card (in Oregon).

Buying a gun at a FFL != obtaining a CHL permit. They are independent and separate acts.


All of these can be done independently and separately:

Buying a gun from FFL.
Obtaining a Medical MJ card.
Actually using MJ
Obtaining a CHL.
Obtaining a handgun.
Carrying a concealed weapon

For example, I could get a Medical MJ card, never use MJ, get a CHL, never obtain a gun. OR
I could get a Medical MJ card, never use MJ, get a CHL, buy a gun from the FFL (saying "no" to the use of drugs), and then sometime later start using MJ.

So like dude ,it expands your thinking?

BTW the form asks about "addiction" not use,I believe.
So where is that line between addiction and use? = not actually lying on the form.

 

[Redcap]

 

[wolfcreek]

Just so you know, I have witnessed people much smarter than I debate this. It really boils down to one question.

Does a mmj card establish you are a user of the drug ?

...

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the letter you posted yourself ends with:

"Further if you aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession or use of MJ under state law, then you have "reasonable cause" to believe that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to that person, even if the person answered "no" to question 11.e..."

Again, it seems like an unequivocal answer to the above question, at least as far as the Feds go. It's been a while since I applied for my CPL, so I don't remember the questions, but I can well imagine having had to check a box claiming that I am not a "prohibited person".

 

[DireWolf]

BTW the form asks about "addiction" not use,I believe.

Wrong.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

 

[ARKLITE881South]

I was bumming around with a friend today and he stated how upset he was that his wife will be able to get her ccw permit and he wont be able to because he has a medical marijuana card. I told him that i thought he was able to get it, but he says that he can not. This was a conversation we had about an hour ago and from the little research that I have done it looks like he can get it. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of this? Thank you for information.

Shane

I think the BEST place to go to find out the answer to your question is to your local Sheriffs office. I would not take the advice of PC lawyers it could end up being a problem.

 

[duane black]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the letter you posted yourself ends with:

"Further if you aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession or use of MJ under state law, then you have "reasonable cause" to believe that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. As such, you may not transfer firearms or ammunition to that person, even if the person answered "no" to question 11.e..."

Again, it seems like an unequivocal answer to the above question, at least as far as the Feds go. It's been a while since I applied for my CPL, so I don't remember the questions, but I can well imagine having had to check a box claiming that I am not a "prohibited person".

You are not missing anything, I'm usually browsing the forum on a 7" tablet and type about 1/3 of what I should. I was referencing a avenue to challenge the alphabet boys on this, as of now it is unequivocal.

Essentially the ATF position is you are addicted or a unlawful user and a prohibited person from buying or possessing firearms or ammunition if :

1. You use the drug.

or

2. You have a MMJ Card.

This is absolutely clear.

What seems to be lost on some people that have looked into this is if you have a MMJ card and fill out a 4473 while possessing such a card, The ATF position is answering no to question 11e is lying on the form.

This is bad.

I believe number 1 , we are dead in the water. If you use MJ the feds say you can't posses guns. I think a higher authority than the ATF should be challenged on number 2 though. How can you prohibit someone from possessing a gun for having the card alone ? It can be successfully argued that having a card does not mean you are a user of the drug.

As of now, it doesn't matter though. Weed and guns do not mix according to the feds.

I would love to be wrong about this fellas. I don't even smoke MJ, I'm just a libertarian that believes the government shouldn't tell you what you can and can't put into your body, and I love Guns...

As another posted stated, " That was not the original question. "

Agreed, OR will give you a CHL and a MMJ Card. ( good for Oregon btw )

As soon as you have a gun/mmj card in your possession, this does matter though.

 

[PiratePast40]

All this talk of being caught with both is all based on the subject being arrested by federal LEO's. I suspect that if you're arrested by federal authorities, you have more serious problems that a medical marijuana card.

 

[duane black]

All this talk of being caught with both is all based on the subject being arrested by federal LEO's. I suspect that if you're arrested by federal authorities, you have more serious problems that a medical marijuana card.

Absolutely.

I believe as long as you are not rolling around with a pound of weed and a concealed glock , the likelihood you will ever see any trouble is near zero.

I would never carry while transporting or under the influence of mj. I don't feel at this time the two should be mixed. If i were a grower I would not have guns around either.

The 4473s give me the willies a bit as the feds routinely use these to " tack " on charges, and they can go way back.