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CCSD Deputy shoots 3 then kills self...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Doubletap, Feb 14, 2010.

  1. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    GRESHAM, Ore. -- An off-duty Clackamas County deputy is responsible for a shooting at a Gresham restaurant that left three people dead and one critically injured, police said Saturday.

    Jeffrey Grahn, a 46-year-old deputy from Boring, shot his wife and two other women before he killed himself at the M & M Restaurant on Friday night, Gresham police said.

    Police spokesman Sgt. Rick Wilson said officers responded to the restaurant and lounge Friday night after receiving a report of shots fired. They found four people with gunshot wounds.

    Grahn and 53-year-old Kathleen Hoffmeister were pronounced dead at the scene, officers said.

    Grahn's wife, 47-year-old Charlotte Grahn, was taken to Legacy Emanuel Hospital with critical injuries. She died Saturday.

    The third victim, 53-year-old Victoria Sculmerich, is in critical condition at the Oregon Health & Science University.

    Grahn was employed by the sheriff's office for the past 15 years. He was in good standing with the sheriff's office prior to his death, according to a sheriff's spokesman.

    Police said numerous witnesses were interviewed in connection with the crime. Major crimes detectives are still investigating and anyone else who witnessed the incident is asked to call police at 503-618-2719.
  2. TonsOfOregonBrass

    TonsOfOregonBrass Sandy, OR Active Member

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    I feel sorry for there families.
  3. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    Wow so sad.

    I wonder if they'll ever find out why.
  4. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    very sad to read... on many levels.

    Perhaps of the seriously injured woman still recovering does so, she will have insight as to underlying causes. There HAS to be a backstory here. Analysing the moves made at the site will be unlikely to reveal those. No mention of whether any other family are left behind. I am certain this will go very hard on them if so.

    I find myself wondering how the anti-gun crowd, always seeking to take arms from all other than police and military, will handle this... or if they'll simply lay low and hope it goes away. If a fifteen year veteran sheriff, in good standing, cannot be trusted with a gun, who can? Puts their arguments in rather a different light...

    very sad state of affairs.
  5. timbernet

    timbernet Boring, Oregon Member

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    KATU has a larger story: http://www.katu.com/news/local/84321087.html

    Other reports say the two had a few children -- how selfish, leave your kids with NO parents, put others in danger because of a marriage dispute?
  6. ZachS

    ZachS Eugene/PDX Active Member

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    To the extent I read it (comments on newspaper websites give me heartburn), the antigunners in the comments thread on the Oregonian's website are basically making that argument.
  7. timbernet

    timbernet Boring, Oregon Member

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    A question that was posed on AR15.com and is a really good one.... what if you were at the M&M with your concealed carry weapon and this man started opening fire -- obviously your life is in danger because bystanders were getting hit and you have no idea who is target is. So you draw and shoot the suspect.

    And then that suspect turns out to be a cop. What would that case be like? At the time you had no idea that the suspect was an officer, and the officer was committing a crime, and you were acting in self-defense. So while technically you would be within your rights I have a feeling the "cop killer" label might be attached and would be really tough to get dropped.
  8. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I believe that in addition to self defense, you have a full right to defend others.

    I can't imagine a lone officer, uniformed or not, walking into a place and opening fire on people who aren't shooting back.

    Having said that, If I couldn't fully see the booth and see what was happening, I don't know what I would do unless the gun was turned in my direction. I do know that my gun would be in my hand at the ready.

    That's a tough call from here.