CC Insurance, enlighten me please

[Vendor Hidden]

Point to remember... Our legal system is so messed up.. Even though you are found not guilty does not protect you from the ensuing civil liability. In either case, if you have to use your firearm to defend yourself justified or not, your life is changed forever. The insurance plays on the fear that you will go broke defending yourself. I don't fear criminal prosecution but I've heard some CRAZY stories about the civil suits where the family of a criminal that got himself shot sue the shooter for lost income etc. Even if found not guilty of that, you'll have mortgaged your house, drained your account etc. So...what I pay for is LegalShield. Yes they have firearm friendly attorneys but they also provide all those "lawyerly functions" like contract reviews, property documentation etc. I've had them review my liability releases etc. Not a horrible deal if you can use the service.

 

[salmon creek gary]

Regarding liability insurance: Don't count on it in WA unless you've read the fine print disclaimers very carefully.

I did that, comparing disclaimers on my current umbrella policy to the same disclaimers a couple years back. Previously, the wording clearly offered liability coverage in cases of reasonable force in defense of self or another person on the property. Now, it is equally clear that use of force is not covered at all. Period.

The timing of this change coincides with the Washington Insurance Commissioner taking the position that - in essence - self defense with a firearm is to be viewed by the state as a criminal act until proven otherwise. Meanwhile, insurance payments (which could help with legal defense) are verboten because it is wrong to reward anyone for a criminal act. Consequently, USCCA and my own umbrella carrier have backed away from insuring self defense in Washington.

Check your policies . . . maybe your insurance carriers have done exactly the same thing as mine. They do tend to communicate with one another, and (my impression) will coldly pounce upon any form of exclusion they learn of which could be used to justify denial of a claim.

 

[308Tom]

ACLDN isn't insurance per se, but a source of financial support in the event of a legitimate self-defense case getting prosecuted.
Buyers Guide
Like insurance you pay a small amount a month and hope to hell you never need it.
Like it or not, there are a lot of venues where you are going to be put through the wringer no matter how justified you are in shooting someone. Knowing you have some financial support if that happens is reassuring to many people.

I am not affiliated with ACLDN other than Jeannie signed us up a few years ago. I am ambivalent about the importance of it, but it makes her feel better so it's okay with me.

I've had ACLDN for the last 10 years or so, and find it well worth the small annual fee. For members they provide a wealth of training materials on a variety of self-defense subjects, a monthly newsletter, and the best thing is peace of mind that if I do get involved in a defensive action that they will back me up. The biggest thing is covering most all lawyer and other fees - as they occur. Second is offering expert nationally recognized advice to your local lawyer on proven methods of asserting a "self defense" claim to LE and in the courts. Many courts and lawyers are not accustomed to hearing "Yeah, I shot him and I was justified in doing so". That is an affirmative defense, then the prosecution must prove that you were not justified to convict you. ACLDN has the expertise to successfully guide your local lawyer on how to do that successfully. Check out ACLDN and see who is on their Advisory Board, see if you recognize them. If you have any time or experience in the armed citizen community you will likely recognize them all - Advisory Board

 

[Mathias]

I've had ACLDN for the last 10 years or so, and find it well worth the small annual fee. For members they provide a wealth of training materials on a variety of self-defense subjects, a monthly newsletter, and the best thing is peace of mind that if I do get involved in a defensive action that they will back me up. The biggest thing is covering most all lawyer and other fees - as they occur. Second is offering expert nationally recognized advice to your local lawyer on proven methods of asserting a "self defense" claim to LE and in the courts. Many courts and lawyers are not accustomed to hearing "Yeah, I shot him and I was justified in doing so". That is an affirmative defense, then the prosecution must prove that you were not justified to convict you. ACLDN has the expertise to successfully guide your local lawyer on how to do that successfully. Check out ACLDN and see who is on their Advisory Board, see if you recognize them. If you have any time or experience in the armed citizen community you will likely recognize them all - Advisory Board

ACLDN is NOT ins. For members there is a pot of money that supplys defense.

 

[briany]

ACLDN is NOT ins. For members there is a pot of money that supplys defense.

Exactly, And that is why if you live in WA it would be the best to buy until they sort out the legal side of things.

 

[308Tom]

All true. ACLDN is not an insurance company with a profit motive, it is a Network to provide for its members. They pledge up to half of their "fund" to support any one member's legal needs for self defense. Right now that fund is over $2 Million. That is a very deep pocket behind the needs you might have. With your cost at $135 for the first year, and less thereafter you can hardly go wrong. What did you spend on your last ammo buy?

 

[DB is Here]

As others have stated the benefits of ACLDN and what it is here, I wont extrapolate on that, been a member for 3 years after considering several others.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

There have been some interesting points made during this thread.

My own CC Insurance is to carry a second concealed handgun.

 

[Bushman]

It seems to me the CC Insurance industry is a big scam playing to the gun grabbers need to instill fear about guns particularly into responsible gun owners. Every conversation I've had with a salesman is full of what iff's and straw-man arguments. No real data or facts are brought up.
Here's what I think would happen if I had to shoot someone because my life or families was in immediate danger. The cops would show up and do one of two things(1) "good shootin' Tex, nice grouping" or (2)they'd take me and the firearm to jail. I'd get released soonish probably no later than the next morning. I don't see where an insurance policy will help that process at all. Next the prosecutor will determine whether the shooting was justified of not. If it was justified then end of story, I get the gun back and have to live with the thing that I've done. If not justified then a trial ensues. Again no insurance policy will help in that determination.
Lastly, if a CC was used am I licensed to carry or not would be the question to answer. Again no insurance will protect me if I'm not legal to carry and don't possess said license.

You really haven't thought this through very well....

They post your bail, which could be as much as 1-2 million to post...

They cover your attorney's fees...Zimmerman spent 2.5 mil from what I read to defend himself....

Yeah you may beat the charges, but you'll be even poorer than now...

 

[Bushman]

It doesn't work that way. Prosecutors do not care if the shooting was justified they care if they think they can get a conviction ($$). Plenty of cases of justified shoots have been taken to trial. The concern here is the cost of that trial is all on the [justified] defenders shoulders and can cost hundreds of thousands...

If you think its as simple as a righteous shoot or not, read this story.

http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey%20Booklet.pdf

Yay! Someone who can think a little deeper.

 

[zenmariner]

If your unsure follow Andrew Branca at the Law Of Self Defense. Hes good at explaining the legal side of how screwed your gonna be.

 

[billdeserthills]

USCCA Insurance fined $100,000

Kreidler fines USCCA $100,000 for illegal insurance sales, policies | Washington state Office of the Insurance Commissioner

Washington state Insurance Commissioner Mike Kreidler issued a fine of $100,000 against United States Concealed Carry Association, Inc., (USCCA) for illegal insurance sales and is seeking $5,400 in premium taxes, penalties and interest.

www.insurance.wa.gov