Washington Catalytic thief pointing gun at house during robbery, what's legal?

[The Heretic]

I know bullets can go thru many layers of dry wall, as do you, but if you read my last reply, can you be sure the jury will know that and take it into consideration? Also the more layers of material between you and the firearm the better the chance it will be stopped or deflected. We don't know how powerful the gun was maybe nothing more than co2 that looks like a real gun, or a 44 magnum. There are too many choices to consider and so the outcome of your trial is really up in the air, again please THINK about the possible outcome of the jury's response to your actions. I'm sure they will!
Whether I'm right or heaven forbid wrong. Isn't material here or not, but how your actions were truly necessary or not in a court of law and do you want to bet what the outcome might be, it's your life at stake if you made the wrong choice. You could end up in jal for a long time if the jury thinks you were out of line.
I'm only suggesting you give good consideration to your actions before you make a move that you may regret!
Gabby

All of this is the hypothetical arguments a prosecution may push, but it is no different any other case of self-defense. As I said, a criminal doesn't point a gun at a house because the house is the threat, he/she is pointing a gun at the people inside because they are a threat. At that point I am justified in saying that the criminal is pointing a gun at me and mine, and I am in mortal danger.

 

[made in china]

Go out the back, come around the side of the perp, startle him, air him out.

Just remember, you were totally unaware someone was out front, you were both startled, and you always legally carry. Your training won the day. Just don't get caught on camera.

There. Problem solved.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

They were pointing the gun at the people inside. That should be obvious. Why would you point a gun at a house if it wasn't intended for the people inside??

Yep, there is only one reason for peep pointing the gun at the door. It's an ambush, plain and simple. He appears to be waiting for whoever to open the door and imo Its reasonable to assume he will shoot whoever comes out.

 

[American123]

I know bullets can go thru many layers of dry wall, as do you, but if you read my last reply, can you be sure the jury will know that and take it into consideration? Also the more layers of material between you and the firearm the better the chance it will be stopped or deflected. We don't know how powerful the gun was maybe nothing more than co2 that looks like a real gun, or a 44 magnum. There are too many choices to consider and so the outcome of your trial is really up in the air, again please THINK about the possible outcome of the jury's response to your actions. I'm sure they will!
Whether I'm right or heaven forbid wrong. Isn't material here or not, but how your actions were truly necessary or not in a court of law and do you want to bet what the outcome might be, it's your life at stake if you made the wrong choice. You could end up in jal for a long time if the jury thinks you were out of line.
I'm only suggesting you give good consideration to your actions before you make a move that you may regret!
Gabby

I appreciate your clarification. Simply put, if someone is pointing a gun at my house while my family and I are inside. They will likely get shot. If we are currently living in a society that allows criminals to point guns at houses with people inside and the law protects the criminal more than the homeowner, then we have surpassed the point that society effectively functions and we live in a failed state.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

They make this so easy on TV... Just shoot the gun out of his hand being careful not to injure his fingers. The police and EMS and some sort of counselor will be there in seconds to make sure everyone is A-OK and feeling good about themselves.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

https://abc57.com/news/over-1-000-catalytic-converters-seized-from-a-salvage-yard-in-bristol

In reviewing defensive gun use cases across the Portland Metro area, I have found that police and DAs side with a Business owner the majority of the time even when the display or discharge of the firearm was questionably legal. Regular citizens get thrown under the bus. And of course Oregon's permanent protestor class get released with no charges or charges dropped 90% of the time.

EDIT: Yesterday's news makes my point.

News

www.kptv.com

If your son had shot someone in the leg who jumped your residential fence and was snooping around your cars, he would be in jail right now. Business owners pay more taxes, so they get a pass.

 

[BillGabby1]

In reviewing defensive gun use cases across the Portland Metro area, I have found that police and DAs side with a Business owner the majority of the time even when the display or discharge of the firearm was questionably legal. Regular citizens get thrown under the bus. And of course Oregon's permanent protestor class get released with no charges or charges dropped 90% of the time.

EDIT: Yesterday's news makes my point.

News

www.kptv.com

If your son had shot someone in the leg who jumped your residential fence and was snooping around your cars, he would be in jail right now. Business owners pay more taxes, so they get a pass.

So where do you fit this picture?
Want to bet on the outcome?
Makes my argument doesn't it?
Caution pays, rashness doesn't!
But go ahead and be as rash as you like, I'll laugh while you serve your time behind bars. Especially if you aren't one of the chosen few.
Gabby

 

[WillametteWill]

I think you make a good point @Nick Burkhardt . Going to be interesting to see what all the facts are and how they play out in this one. In reading this article I noticed a link to another stating that Oregon ranks 2nd in the country in addiction and last in treatment. Mix this with equal parts of no prosecution of criminals through policies, stir for 20 months of fiery but mostly peaceful evenings and 24 months of lockdown and pour yourself a nice glass of Portland on the rocks.

 

[revjen45]

1) "cap him and then fire a couple rounds from his gun into the side of the house??"
How would you explain his shooting into the house after you have hosed him down?

2) "If we are currently living in a society that allows criminals to point guns at houses with people inside and the law protects the criminal more than the homeowner, then we have surpassed the point that society effectively functions and we live in a failed state."
Yeah, so what's your point?

 

[made in china]

So where do you fit this picture?
Want to bet on the outcome?
Makes my argument doesn't it?
Caution pays, rashness doesn't!
But go ahead and be as rash as you like, I'll laugh while you serve your time behind bars. Especially if you aren't one of the chosen few.
Gabby

Why would you "laugh" at him?

 

[BillGabby1]

Why would you "laugh" at him?

For being a fool who was being so rash and insisting on his course of action after being appraised of his folly. Sort of being the child who had to learn by sticking his hand into the fire after being told it was hot and would hurt. Since he was assumed to being an adult, his folly was even more worthy of my mirth at his folly!
What a dumb bubblegum he was.

I'm growing tired of this whole thread! Since so many insist on following their "manly" course of action in "defending " their family and self from an idiot who was threatening them with what appeared to be a lethal weapon but so far hasn't fired a shot or actually threatened any one of you in the house which I suspect he can't even see . This is only so far as you could attest is only brandishing which he would likely could get away with 30 days at the most in the local jail, and you blew him away for a low level crime . What do you suppose the the DA would throw at you. I'm guessing the minimum would be manslaughter! For your foolish action. No one so far has even mentioned how they would protect you or your family and possibly your friends from this threat to you and yours, by such as moving everyone to the rear of the house away from a threatening weapon, or even mentioning calling 911. Your testosterone is doing your thinking for you. All you seem to be thinking of is how to get away with shooting the dumb slob standing out there in the open making a target of himself like a dumb ash.
I'm done here do whatever you wish it's your hide not mine!

 

[The Heretic]

Since so many insist on following their "manly" course of action in "defending " their family and self from an idiot who was threatening them with what appeared to be a lethal weapon but so far hasn't fired a shot or actually threatened any one of you in the house which I suspect he can't even see .

Since you insist on laughing, is it ok if I laugh at you when you get shot by someone pointing a gun at you while you waited for him to get the first shot off because you thought maybe it wasn't a real gun?

 

[made in china]

For being a fool who was being so rash and insisting on his course of action after being appraised of his folly. Sort of being the child who had to learn by sticking his hand into the fire after being told it was hot and would hurt. Since he was assumed to being an adult, his folly was even more worthy of my mirth at his folly!
What a dumb bubblegum he was.

I'm growing tired of this whole thread! Since so many insist on following their "manly" course of action in "defending " their family and self from an idiot who was threatening them with what appeared to be a lethal weapon but so far hasn't fired a shot or actually threatened any one of you in the house which I suspect he can't even see . This is only so far as you could attest is only brandishing which he would likely could get away with 30 days at the most in the local jail, and you blew him away for a low level crime . What do you suppose the the DA would throw at you. I'm guessing the minimum would be manslaughter! For your foolish action. No one so far has even mentioned how they would protect you or your family and possibly your friends from this threat to you and yours, by such as moving everyone to the rear of the house away from a threatening weapon, or even mentioning calling 911. Your testosterone is doing your thinking for you. All you seem to be thinking of is how to get away with shooting the dumb slob standing out there in the open making a target of himself like a dumb ash.
I'm done here do whatever you wish it's your hide not mine!

I see you have an inflated, self-affirming sense of righteousness.

Your points aren't wrong, and they are likely a better way to navigate this crap hole system.

However, righteous people don't "laugh" at the unfortunate outcomes of others, no matter the circumstances.

If I were a criminal, I'd want more people to think like you. It'd make my life way easier

 

[BillGabby1]

Since you insist on laughing, is it ok if I laugh at you when you get shot by someone pointing a gun at you while you waited for him to get the first shot off because you thought maybe it wasn't a real gun?

Laugh all you want, I'll be in the farthest back part of the house with my cordless phone calling the Sheriff's office on 911. I'll also have a couple weapons there with me just in case they are needed, which I doubt. They are too interested in the converter and getting away. Showing the firearm is so you won't come out to prevent them from doing their thievery.
You are beating the dead horse.

 

[Hawaiian]

I would flash my outside lights on and off a bunch. That might scare them off. If not?
I am not going outside
I am not shooting them, unless they start shooting into my house.
I don't want to shoot anyone over a car part, or even the whole car for that matter.
For what my legal fees would be, I could probably buy two cars.

 

[kmk1012]

Laugh all you want, I'll be in the farthest back part of the house with my cordless phone calling the Sheriff's office on 911. I'll also have a couple weapons there with me just in case they are needed, which I doubt. They are too interested in the converter and getting away. Showing the firearm is so you won't come out to prevent them from doing their thievery.
You are beating the dead horse.

Pretty much the attitude of the serfs that have got our society in this place to begin with. I'm with throwing a distraction and let them escalate the situation if they choose. I will never cower in my home to anyone, especially to someone who is on the outside, I will not back down when they are the aggressor. People (similar to you) need to get their spines back. This is the only way to gain our once great free country back. Cowering in your own home and hoping police will stop them in time will make the theft and burglary problems worse. Any reasonable thinking person can apply this logic to just about any upward trends in crime in our once great society over the past several years.

 

[The Heretic]

The points of disagreement are:

1) Whether the criminal is pointing the gun at the house or the people in the house. I contend the criminal is ultimately pointing the gun at the people in the house. If he was sure there was nobody in the house, then he would not be pointing the gun at the house as there would be no threat to him coming from the house, therefore he is pointing the gun at the people he thinks are in the house.

2) Whether a person can assume the gun is real, and whether the criminal intends to use it in a lethal manner, and whether it is better to wait to find that out by waiting for the criminal to shoot first, thereby signaling his criminal and lethal intentions. I would assert that the simple act of pointing the gun at the house (and thereby the people in the house), the criminal is obviously signaling his/her intentions - i.e., he/she is up to no good and the safest assumption on the part of the people in the house is that he/she intends to shoot them if they show any inclination to stop their criminal activities. I assert that it is foolish to assume that a criminal will just stop at intimidation.

 

[GWS]

The more I think about this, the more I think gank the cat off the hooptie is the best option.
Does BiMart sell cat gankers?

 

[BillGabby1]

I suggest everyone contact your local law enforcement agency and ask them how you should handle this situation, and if you aren't satisfied with their answer, contact your personal lawyer or if you are an NRA member perhaps you could contact someone from NRA-ILA and get their thinking on how it should be handled.
I'm tired of trying to get you all to protect your selves from the litigation you will be facing if you have made the wrong choice.
This old "serf" served my country, and was a police officer and security officer as well. Now I'm almost 80 and don't get around like I used to. But I carry every day and know how to pull the trigger, but I also know when NOT to!
I'm afraid several here do NOT know and are a danger to themselves because the law will ultimately decide if you conducted your self in the proper way. From what I'm seeing most here aren't thinking things thru. Litigation is very expensive so you better have deep pockets because you will need them.
Another thing to think about all you tough talking people, have you ever thought that perhaps people working for the various agencies could be watching this forum, and know who you are, and if you get into trouble they will have your written words to use against you. Big brother is watching all of us!
Grow a brain people and use it!
Buh bye,
Gabby

 

[American123]

I suggest everyone contact your local law enforcement agency and ask them how you should handle this situation, and if you aren't satisfied with their answer, contact your personal lawyer or if you are an NRA member perhaps you could contact someone from NRA-ILA and get their thinking on how it should be handled.
I'm tired of trying to get you all to protect your selves from the litigation you will be facing if you have made the wrong choice.
This old "serf" served my country, and was a police officer and security officer as well. Now I'm almost 80 and don't get around like I used to. But I carry every day and know how to pull the trigger, but I also know when NOT to!
I'm afraid several here do NOT know and are a danger to themselves because the law will ultimately decide if you conducted your self in the proper way. From what I'm seeing most here aren't thinking things thru. Litigation is very expensive so you better have deep pockets because you will need them.
Another thing to think about all you tough talking people, have you ever thought that perhaps people working for the various agencies could be watching this forum, and know who you are, and if you get into trouble they will have your written words to use against you. Big brother is watching all of us!
Grow a brain people and use it!
Buh bye,
Gabby

If the criminal pointing the gun at the house happened to be at the house of an off duty police officer. Would that officer be justified in shooting the criminal pointing the gun at the house? (the house that he was inside of) Or would that officer have to wait for the criminal to fire the gun before being able to legally do that?