Washington Catalytic thief pointing gun at house during robbery, what's legal?

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Screw shooting them, go out to the street and gank the cat off their hooptie. Maybe bust a few windows and tires while they're in the 'hood.
I would absolutely be fine with hanging out a front window and putting a 30 round mag dump into their getaway for sure. Although it's probably stolen so I'd get brought up on vandalism charges.

I just don’t understand how someone can consider a person pointing a gun at the house not a deadly threat.
The argument from the liberal DA would be that as long as you stay inside the safety perimeter of your home, and the criminal remains outside said safety perimeter, you are safe from his gun. I'm am not even a tiny little bit in agreement with that statement, but you know as well as I do that this would be the argument. They'd say, you had a firearm and if the criminal would have tried to enter your safety perimeter, then you would be justified, but shooting someone just because they are trying to feed their family is murder on your part. Like I said, I think every one of these lowlife thieves need a day of reckoning, but holy chit it would cost a lot more than a new cat to fight this in court even if you win.

The best plan of attack would be close to what @Stomper suggested.....Sneak out the back door, find yourself a nice place of cover with a good view of the situation and then pull out your trusty whistle and blow that focker with every ounce of air your lungs can hold so that the heavens above can hear it. That way God knows you'll be there in a few minutes.
 

Tony617

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They were using a sawsall and it was very loud from watching the video. That is probably why one of the culprits had a gun drawn. Not worth but I know other people that were living in apartments that had their catalytic converters stolen.
 
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I would absolutely be fine with hanging out a front window and putting a 30 round mag dump into their getaway for sure. Although it's probably stolen so I'd get brought up on vandalism charges.


The argument from the liberal DA would be that as long as you stay inside the safety perimeter of your home, and the criminal remains outside said safety perimeter, you are safe from his gun. I'm am not even a tiny little bit in agreement with that statement, but you know as well as I do that this would be the argument. They'd say, you had a firearm and if the criminal would have tried to enter your safety perimeter, then you would be justified, but shooting someone just because they are trying to feed their family is murder on your part. Like I said, I think every one of these lowlife thieves need a day of reckoning, but holy chit it would cost a lot more than a new cat to fight this in court even if you win.

The best plan of attack would be close to what @Stomper suggested.....Sneak out the back door, find yourself a nice place of cover with a good view of the situation and then pull out your trusty whistle and blow that focker with every ounce of air your lungs can hold so that the heavens above can hear it. That way God knows you'll be there in a few minutes.
I understand what you’re explaining.

From my view defense evidence: video showing regular pistol bullet easily penetrating house materials and retaining lethal velocity well into the home after penetration.

A house isn’t bullet proof, the safety perimeter argument makes sense if the perp is just hitting the door with a blunt object, or a knife, but from my point of view, pointing a gun in the direction of people is equivalent to intent to fire gun at people. In all police shootings I’m familiar with, a person points a gun in the direction of police, they get shot. If a guy rolled up to a police station and pointed a gun at the building, I’m 100% confident he’d be shot without a hesitation.
 

GWS

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Theoretically the guy is pointing the gun at the front door right? Most front door areas to houses have windows facing the same direction. If the guy is considered a deadly threat then shooting right through the window a few times would do it. First one breaks the window, maybe hits target, maybe not, second one goes through hole of first one and hits target more likely.

I just don’t understand how someone can consider a person pointing a gun at the house not a deadly threat.
I never said he wasn’t a deadly threat. My concerns are based on the gunman being a deadly threat. And I don’t like the idea of thieves getting away with stuff, but shooting through the door or even the window next to it seems like a bad idea. Shooting blindly through either would be unsafe and probably illegal. As we all know you are responsible for every bullet you shoot. Yanking the curtain open to see him and make your shot could draw fire before you can get your shot off. If there’s no curtain his positioning would probably let him see you first and start shooting first. And please don’t tell me you could triangulate your shot placement based on where he is on camera, unless he’s extremely close to your door. So again, without firing blindly or exposing yourself to fire from an alert and ready threat. How do you take the gunman out?
 
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I never said he wasn’t a deadly threat. My concerns are based on the gunman being a deadly threat. And I don’t like the idea of thieves getting away with stuff, but shooting through the door or even the window next to it seems like a bad idea. Shooting blindly through either would be unsafe and probably illegal. As we all know you are responsible for every bullet you shoot. Yanking the curtain open to see him and make your shot could draw fire before you can get your shot off. If there’s no curtain his positioning would probably let him see you first and start shooting first. And please don’t tell me you could triangulate your shot placement based on where he is on camera, unless he’s extremely close to your door. So again, without firing blindly or exposing yourself to fire from an alert and ready threat. How do you take the gunman out?
If your lights are off inside your house and there is some ambient light on him outside your house, you’d be able to see him rather clearly, but he would not be able to see easily inside the window regardless of curtains or not because of the difference in light outside compared to inside.

Here’s just a random point of reference. A family member had their c-converter stolen off a car. Don’t know when it happened, maybe they were home asleep, maybe not. Point is, they didn’t have any clue what was going on outside. Ultimately nothing but inconvenient and a insurance claim. If a scenario presents itself where I am aware that someone outside my house is pointing a gun at my house where my family and I are inside - it’s already a crappy situation that I want stopped. One method is shooting the guy myself. I’m not saying I relish the idea. Simply that it is a lethal threat and unacceptable to allow to continue.

You could call the police as well, but that doesn’t stop the immediate threat. In my home situation if this were the scenario, there isn’t anything truly bullet stopping between the bedroom and the street. If I were in a concrete and steel bunker I might have a different opinion.
 

Nosferatu

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So here's what I'd likely actually do in this situation:

1. Arm up.
2. Move spousal unit and dogs (we have no kids) away from the front room to a room furthest from the area.
3. Call 911.
4. Let the cameras collect evidence.

If the perps come through that front door, they get lit up.

This is ultimately nothing but an insurance claim and a minor inconvenience. I effing despise thieves, but I'm not going to jail and/or buying some lawyer new house over a car part.
 
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I understand what you’re explaining.

From my view defense evidence: video showing regular pistol bullet easily penetrating house materials and retaining lethal velocity well into the home after penetration.

A house isn’t bullet proof, the safety perimeter argument makes sense if the perp is just hitting the door with a blunt object, or a knife, but from my point of view, pointing a gun in the direction of people is equivalent to intent to fire gun at people. In all police shootings I’m familiar with, a person points a gun in the direction of police, they get shot. If a guy rolled up to a police station and pointed a gun at the building, I’m 100% confident he’d be shot without a hesitation.
You make a good argument sir.
 
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You make a good argument sir.
Well, regardless of my severe disdain for thieves. I view the pointing of a gun in the direction of people to be entirely separate and different and unrelated to the theft of the catalytic converter and that action is what leads me to believe it as sufficiently threatening to use lethal force in response, totally irrelevant of the catalytic converter.
 

asiparks

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If your lights are off inside your house and there is some ambient light on him outside your house, you’d be able to see him rather clearly, but he would not be able to see easily inside the window regardless of curtains or not because of the difference in light outside compared to inside.

...snip...
Things to consider-

He may not be able to see me clearly, that doesn't mean he won't just try empty his gun towards my house when I start shooting.
We also don't know if his friends are armed- they might flee, or they might start shooting too. But it's an unknown and it goes in the "reasons not to" list
If a scenario presents itself where I am aware that someone outside my house is pointing a gun at my house where my family and I are inside - it’s already a crappy situation that I want stopped. One method is shooting the guy myself. I’m not saying I relish the idea. Simply that it is a lethal threat and unacceptable to allow to continue.

It is a crappy situation. But contrary to your presumption that you'll "stop" it by opening fire, I think it more likely to escalate and put yourself, and family, in greater danger.

You could call the police as well, but that doesn’t stop the immediate threat. In my home situation if this were the scenario, there isn’t anything truly bullet stopping between the bedroom and the street. If I were in a concrete and steel bunker I might have a different opinion.
Right- homes are not great bullet stoppers, so, when there are people robbing your muffler, who don't yet have a target, or yet have a reason to shoot, why invite them to start ?
Use your position and cover to observe and be ready. But don't make a crappy situation way, way crappier
 
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gmerkt

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With regards to "imminent"; are you going to wait for someone pointing a gun at you and your family to start shooting, or are you going to shoot them first?
From a practical point of view and perhaps also a legal one, the pointed gun wasn't going to be fired so long as the door stayed closed. The homeowner didn't open the door, no shots were fired. After all, they were stealing and didn't want to get caught, that was the point of the gun. Shooting would've elevated their risk of getting caught. Therefore there was an actual disincentive for them to just start shooting for no reason. Being that they were thieves and not psychopaths, this scenario is very probably valid.

I agree, an honest Joe hates to see perps get away with stuff. The urge to justice / revenge is high, especially in the heat of the moment.

Anybody has a right to defend themselves. In court, there are lots of variations of this. One question is, were your actions what a reasonable person would do? The fact that you had an avenue of escape (e.g. just staying indoors) would be a major point if you were being prosecuted. In other words, you weren't directly threatened or cornered, you could've walked away.

True there was a pointed gun involved. But the holder wasn't shooting. In this case, taking the first shot back may play in court as using lethal force to protect property. Which is against the law in Wash. state. This could be sticky.

Legally, you may only shoot out of fear for your life and no more. Regardless of the situation, if you shoot a perp, once he's down, you're done shooting. Coup de grace finishing off shots, that is a road to prison. That 30 round mag dump might be problematic.
 

gmerkt

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I forgot to say. If you do shoot back, don't touch anything until the cops arrive. Then, don't say anything to the cops until you get that $800 per hour attorney.
 
This is a quandary situation. Likely, if some homeowner did shoot the peep thru a door/window/wall, they would be found innocent. After a lengthy & costly court process.

I have an idea to stop the thieves from putting there lives in danger.

Ban all vehicles with catalytic converters. All of them. Folks can be eligible to get a few gift cards at local catalyzed vehicle turn ins. ;)
 
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That 30 round mag dump might be problematic.
For clarification, that 30 round mag dump I spoke of was into their unoccupied getaway car so to render it inoperable and forcing them to depart on foot, thereby being forced to carry my catalytic converter with them. I just wanted to make it as difficult as possible on them.
 

Stomper

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I would absolutely be fine with hanging out a front window and putting a 30 round mag dump into their getaway for sure. Although it's probably stolen so I'd get brought up on vandalism charges.


The argument from the liberal DA would be that as long as you stay inside the safety perimeter of your home, and the criminal remains outside said safety perimeter, you are safe from his gun. I'm am not even a tiny little bit in agreement with that statement, but you know as well as I do that this would be the argument. They'd say, you had a firearm and if the criminal would have tried to enter your safety perimeter, then you would be justified, but shooting someone just because they are trying to feed their family is murder on your part. Like I said, I think every one of these lowlife thieves need a day of reckoning, but holy chit it would cost a lot more than a new cat to fight this in court even if you win.

The best plan of attack would be close to what @Stomper suggested.....Sneak out the back door, find yourself a nice place of cover with a good view of the situation and then pull out your trusty whistle and blow that focker with every ounce of air your lungs can hold so that the heavens above can hear it. That way God knows you'll be there in a few minutes.
You forgot the postage stamp and return address of, “please do not return and please burn the contents”.
 
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My dad shot a guy who was repo-ing his car in 1970 . Turns out he had the wrong address and wrong car. 2AM My mom ran out in her bathrobe and attacked the guy. My dad comes out and the guy is fighting my mom off . 44 Mag right through the knee. This was in Huntington Beach and they didnt so much as haul my dad in for questioning.
 

EHJ

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Not sure many here have realized this but....
The last thing Portland does is worry about the participants of gun crimes.
Unsolved, uninvolved and uninterested. Over a thousand alone last year. Nobody cares any longer.




:rolleyes:
("Justifiable Fearfulness.")

odds.jpeg

Coming soon to a town near you!
 
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