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Case law on "constructive intent"?

The latest In Range TV Q&A briefly mentioned this. It, of course, is not the first time I've heard of the concept. I'm not, however, familiar with any case law of this actually happening, except for those involving people popped with drop-in full-auto parts and at least one guy selling "solvent traps" that was obviously a silencer. As far as I can tell, while a real legal concept, this is an Internet boogieman when it comes to NFA items.

That said, I've been wrong before, so am curious if anyone knows of actual case law of people getting nailed for this. (And, no, I'm not changing my policy of waiting to buy the parts until my approved Form 1 is back. This one is filed under "morbid curiosity".)

Thanks.
 

Dyjital

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Spin around in your bathroom with the lights off in front of the mirror, three times. Each time you pass the mirror say "Candyman"...


I'm breaking the constructive intent law theory right now in my safe. I have a Ruger Charger takedown and a 10/22 takedown. Both of them may, could or possibly be apart sitting on the shelf. The parts are close. Not that I'd go out and SBR it without being legal but this is the same with having parts in hand, uppers, lowers to make a SBR.

I'm guilty.
 
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Ura-Ki

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Same, while awaiting my Stamps, I have been known to have all the parts needed on hand yet unembarrassed and no intent to do so until said stamp has been processed and cleared hot, So yea, technically guilty!:eek:
 
Good find. I do remember that one. Fortunately, after three weeks, all charges were dismissed, and the items returned to his possession. Had to have been a rough few weeks. Yikes.
 

Dyjital

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Constructive Possession exists when a person knowingly has the power and intention
Seems the word "intention" is lost to the domination hungry alphabet soups.

This also would apply to anyone with a lathe, machining skills, round stock and tube stock at their house. Boom... a few hours and you have a suppressor.

Anyone with corn, a lot of mason jars, an old swimming pool (or hot tub) and some copper tubing.

Constructive possession/intent is right there.
 
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I have eggs, cheese, and a frying pan and I do have serious omelette intent. Maybe with a little Bisquick and milk, pancakes!! The point is, until some one can climb in my head ( scary place) how in the name of beelzebubs balls can they know what my intent is?

They would have to ask.

If they have to ask, they don't know jack.

They are looking for your help to lock you up.

They will lie, saying they just need to hear your story and everything will be o.k..

Instead they want to misconstrue, misquote, and take out of context everything you say.

Never ever cooperate.

Sorry for the rant.
 
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Keep'em separated.

I may have to buy another small safe. Stupid PSA weekend deals. I don't have any NFA items, but still have considered keeping lowers and uppers, save a few, separate. Just as a practice that won't really inconvenience my nornal activities. Plus I can buy a smaller safe.
 

Alexx1401

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Guy I knew well in passing got in trouble on this when it was first being "tested". He was selling the guts to make suppressors and selling AR sears. He got away for years and took some mail order class (this was pre internet) on "law". It went to his head BIG time. Decided he was a lawyer and started to poke the bear until the ATF raided his home. He had enough stuff to go to the Fed big house for decades and amazingly the Barneys actually could not find any of it. At the time I was pretty young and was shocked. I thought if you had stuff like that and they came with a dozen guys there was no such thing. I was wrong. They took an AR that had all the parts of an M16 except the sear in it, along with a bunch of Sear's. Said they were going to make a case out of it but did not arrest him. While it was winding it's way through courts he fired his lawyer, went after them big time, ended up in jail for a while. Then fled the country. Of course before long they found him, brought him back, and sent him to club Fed. This was all done under the idea that having the parts means intent. Now if he had not believed the BS he was fed about the Constitution protected him and done what his lawyer said? Who knows he may have walked. I had seen the stuff he had at home and it was amazing that the bozo's the Feds sent could not tell what they had and let him go. That is one case I know of where someone did actually go to prison. Even if he had walked it would have been a HUGE financial hit for him. Again though he was a walking neon sign saying come get me and they finally got tired of it. If someone wanted to play in the gray area they probably would not really have to worry. I would not do it any more but did when young and dumb.
 
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I remember the days when I could walk into a gun show and buy all the parts that change an m1 carbine into an m2. Really interesting because undercover police were at these shows in force, and had no idea what they were looking at.

likely they still don't

really miss the great western gun show, it took up seven exhibition halls at L.A. County fairgrounds.
 

Alexx1401

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I remember the days when I could walk into a gun show and buy all the parts that change an m1 carbine into an m2. Really interesting because undercover police were at these shows in force, and had no idea what they were looking at.

likely they still don't

really miss the great western gun show, it took up seven exhibition halls at L.A. County fairgrounds.
Yep I remember seeing those at the shows and in ads in the Shotgun News. It seemed it was only a problem if you managed to get caught with an M2 that you had not papered.
 

Alexx1401

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Makes you wonder where all those parts went. I also wonder where all the sten parts sets went, over a 100,000 were imported.
My best guess is there is untold hordes of these floating around. As long as those who own them don't go on facebook and such to tell everyone about them, probably never have a problem. The Sten especially. Damn gun was so easy to make even back in the day. god only knows how many are floating around.
 
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Spin around in your bathroom with the lights off in front of the mirror, three times. Each time you pass the mirror say "Candyman"...


I'm breaking the constructive intent law theory right now in my safe. I have a Ruger Charger takedown and a 10/22 takedown. Both of them may, could or possibly be apart sitting on the shelf. The parts are close. Not that I'd go out and SBR it without being legal but this is the same with having parts in hand, uppers, lowers to make a SBR.

I'm guilty.
Have not read the whole thread yet, so someone may have already said this, but per the doctrine I have read, I don't think you are guilty of 'constructive intent'.

If I understand you correctly, you have the firearms proper for each component - i.e., you have a Charger and a 10/22. Constructive intent can be proved when you have the parts that can be used for a SBR when those parts cannot arguably be used legally for another firearm in the same vicinity.

E.G., I actually bought the barrel for a Charger but I don't own a Charger and I do own a 10/22. I never brought the Charger barrel home; I gave it to my daughter to store until such time as I get a Charger or buy a receiver as a 'firearm' to construct a pistol. Had I brought it home where my 10/22 resides, I could be charged and possibly found guilty of constructive intent since I do not yet have a firearm I can legally use it on, but I do have one that I could illegally use it on (if I didn't get the tax stamp).
 
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Another case where I did own two firearms where constructive intent would not be provable:

I own two Shockwaves with 14"+ barrels. I also owned a Mossberg 500 shotgun with a 20" barrel.

Yes, I could have swapped the barrels between them, but that is not constructive intent because I owned the Shockwaves where the 14" barrels are legal, even though the could be used on the shotgun.

I no longer own the shotgun.

The ATF does not consider it constructive intent if you possess the firearms where the parts are legally used under the GCA - only if you don't. If I had a barrel from one of my Shockwaves at a location where the Shockwave was not present, and I had a shotgun at that same location, that could use that barrel, then it could be argued I have constructive intent.
 
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CHLChris

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Spin around in your bathroom with the lights off in front of the mirror, three times. Each time you pass the mirror say "Candyman"...


I'm breaking the constructive intent law theory right now in my safe. I have a Ruger Charger takedown and a 10/22 takedown. Both of them may, could or possibly be apart sitting on the shelf. The parts are close. Not that I'd go out and SBR it without being legal but this is the same with having parts in hand, uppers, lowers to make a SBR.

I'm guilty.
No, not guilty. Constructive intent would only be present if you had a Takedown, and next to that a Charger barrel assembly ONLY. Instead, you also have the Charger receiver. So there is no prove-able intent.

Potential mix and match is not a problem if one logical option is a legally acceptable option.

Just call the other options GRAVY...
 

Dyjital

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I’m really and I mean really busted now.

I now have changed out my 10/22 takedown rifle to this TacSol which means I constructively could with the extra takedown stock/barrel/hand guard at my house make whatever I wanted.

But there still has to be intent. The parts lying around still doesn’t make intent.

I still call BS on all this. Intent is a bubblegum to prove unless you have audio murmurings or the intent written down (of which I have none of either, just sarcastic and smart bubblegum responses).

860A2E52-6EC5-4304-820E-FAF1642D070A.jpeg
 

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