Cascadia Playbook - Does It Contain Emergency Gun Confiscation

[BoonDocks36]

Your calculations assume one confiscation team only for all of Silverton.

If they brought in 20 confiscation teams it would take about 4 ten hour days.

Also, I am sure that they would target the house of CHL holders, NFA firearms owners and anybody that is any other list that the gov. has on gun owners first,

before just going to any old house and searching it. So 20 teams would clear about half the homes that have a high chance of owning firearms in about 2 days. That assumes they don't work around the clock, and if they had multiple teams, they could do just that - working in shifts.

At issue, is the concept of confiscation from we who are known....

It is my Premise that before say Three Houses were subject to the atrocity spoken of, that every other Gun Owner would instantly Become a Three Percenter... Even the Elmer Fudds, a Term I dislike, but is needed for the thread, Will be up in Arms, just that fast.

The dotGOV just can not spread itself that this... And if the try, they will see the Resolve of, We, The People.

philip

 

[DuneHopper]

Here is a 127 page book http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/plans_train/docs/CSZ/1_csz_plan_final.pdf
Operation plan for earthquakes and tsunami .

 

[U201491]

Here is a 127 page book http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/plans_train/docs/CSZ/1_csz_plan_final.pdf
Operation plan for earthquakes and tsunami .

I don't think this is complete of a full plan with all data, but the few things I found were pretty benign, but again I think they hae orders that are private to citizen view and the only way we will find out is if someone decides to release it and jeopardize their position or when the event actually happens.
The few things I found were there.

--------------------------------------------------
Course of Action: Institute temporary vehicle restrictions on key routes.
Task: Reduce traffic on key routes that are congested as a result of damage, or serve a
vital lifeline to impacted communities.
Limitations/Challenges
 Public reaction is likely to be overwhelmingly negative to banning access on
some routes.
 Access passes and verification may need issued to residents of rural areas
needing to utilize closed roadways.
 Closing roadways will require increased personnel, signage, barriers and law
enforcement.
Task: Establish transit service along closed roadways.
Task: Develop and distribute effective public information on road restrictions.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


DoD may be tasked by FEMA (through a mission assignment) to provide
resources in a Title 10 duty status for Civil Support operations. Once these
assignments have been issued, DoD personnel carrying out missions will remain
under the control of the Secretary of Defense via U.S. Northern Command. Their
operations in the field will be directed by one or more Task Force Commanders

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Potential missions for DoD personnel in a Title 10 status are similar to those of

the National Guard except for the limits on domestic law enforcement imposed

by the Comitatus Act of 1878.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not much more in there that tips their hand in such an event. But still I do not think it is all there in this basic booklet.

 

[IheartSig]

These books are a best effort by a government to mitigate and control disaster. They are guidelines for a person to pick up when they inevitably have to step into a role they are not prepared for (Read: By the way, your boss, your bosses boss and her boss are dead, you're in charge of XYZ, make it happen).

Of course they don't contain plans for weapon confiscation.... why would they? The Katrina confiscations were not in a playbook either. That was a jacked up decision made by a Police superintendent and carried out by various local, state and federal workers under the scope of his direction.

There is no way of knowing if it will happen again, because as a normal person would suspect, even if THEY did want to take YOUR guns in the days following a massive earthquake, they certainly wouldn't put it in writing.

If that call is made again, it won't be because of "paragraph 3 section A subsection F" it will be because a local yokel somewhere tries to make a decision he can control in the face of events he can not manage. It will likely fail, just as the majority of the Katrina seizures did.

Not to mention the fact that it violates the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006, which is a federal amendment that prohibits the confiscation of a firearm during an emergency or major disaster if the possession of such firearm is not prohibited under Federal or State law.

So see, clearly, that if they DID start seizing and confiscating firearms in the wake of a massive, debilitating earthquake here in the Pacific Northwest, it would be no different than the federal agents hidden outside in the bushes right now, just waiting for everyone to remove the tinfoil hats, so they can bust in take our guns.

Relax

 

[U8395279]

There are roughly 10k people in Silverton if you divide that by say 3 people average in a house hold. Thats roughly 3,330 house holds. If it takes just. 15min per household to confiscate the firearms or guess they dont have any thats equal to. 70 days working 12 hrs per day just to clear tiny Silverton granted 10 teams could do it in a week. Now add the hundreds of households out in the countryside around Silverton.

Theres over 10 times as many households in just Salem

Im not worried.

The situation would be much worse than that for the government in such a scenario. Remember, they really don't have a true database of everyone who owns guns. At least at this point in time, that is still true. And if any government, whether local, state, or federal ever started a mass confiscation, the word would quickly get out. And how many people would then hide their firearms? That is what our forefathers often did when the British troops came looking.

Plus, y0ur estimate seems to imply that everyone will welcome the officials confiscating their guns into their home, and willingly open up their gun safe or safes for them.

It would be a total no win situation for any government to do. If they truly cracked down and implemented a confiscation, and started harming innocent, law abiding gun owners in their own homes simply because they owned firearms, that would quickly turn public opinion against them.

This is exactly why the anti-gun legislators have generally implemented bans in recent decades by outlawing future sales and transfers of classes of weapons, and not ordering a confiscation of firearms in the current possession of citizens. The government then only has to simply wait for the current generation of owners to pass on, and they will then eventually achieve a peaceful gun ban, without all the headaches that outright confiscation would create.

No, the plan to take away our firearms is a long and slow process. It will not come quickly, in the form of door to door confiscation. Our enemies know better than to do something that direct, and risk provoking a reaction.

Registration of all guns and licensing of gun owners, as was done in Maryland two years ago, is a key step that needs to be implemented first. Once that is accomplished, it will simply be a matter of demonizing more and more classes of firearms, as we have already seen happen in so many places.
.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Your calculations assume one confiscation team only for all of Silverton.

If they brought in 20 confiscation teams it would take about 4 ten hour days.

Also, I am sure that they would target the house of CHL holders, NFA firearms owners and anybody that is any other list that the gov. has on gun owners first, before just going to any old house and searching it. So 20 teams would clear about half the homes that have a high chance of owning firearms in about 2 days. That assumes they don't work around the clock, and if they had multiple teams, they could do just that - working in shifts.

If the home owners complied. Most will roll over on their backs waiting to be scratched, some will not!!!

 

[Slobray]

......
Cause 5 min after they left the first house in Silverton 10% of the other houses in Silverton would know what they were doing. And an hour after that half the houses in town would know.

.....
It is my Premise that before say Three Houses were subject to the atrocity spoken of, that every other Gun Owner would instantly Become a Three Percenter... Even the Elmer Fudds, a Term I dislike, but is needed for the thread, Will be up in Arms, just that fast......

....And if any government, whether local, state, or federal ever started a mass confiscation, the word would quickly get out. And how many people would then hide their firearms? That is what our forefathers often did when the British troops came looking......

I think the point the above posts are missing is we are talking about a natural disaster or a SHTF situation and most, if not all, communication will be down. That's what made the Katrina confiscation successful; most had no way to communicate to be rescued, let alone tell anyone about their guns being taken, many couldn't spread the word because they were just too busy surviving and let's not forget that the confiscators had comm's and mobility that the victims didn't.

The thing is; don't count on the fact that it won't be 100% effective, or that people will spread the word and some people will be able to hide their firearms.
....

I believe that "The Heretic" is right on track here because in a natural disaster or a SHTF situation, the vast majority of people will be without comm's and/or too busy with the act of surviving for the word to get out, let alone, have the ability to get the word out faster than the confiscation crews are moving.

Another problem is, it's not like it was in the days of our forefathers, where they had specific lines of communication in their communities and abroad. In everyday life now, we don't have the need for messengers like they did. We depend far too much on technology and that has left us soft, complacent and vulnerable. Hell, most people now days don't even know how to communicate without their electronics.

While they may not get them all, I believe with a concerted effort they could get many many more, if not most from a community than most people think could.


Ray

 

[etrain16]

I think the point the above posts are missing is we are talking about a natural disaster or a SHTF situation and most, if not all, communication will be down. That's what made the Katrina confiscation successful; most had no way to communicate to be rescued, let alone tell anyone about their guns being taken, many couldn't spread the word because they were just too busy surviving and let's not forget that the confiscators had comm's and mobility that the victims didn't.



I believe that "The Heretic" is right on track here because in a natural disaster or a SHTF situation, the vast majority of people will be without comm's and/or too busy with the act of surviving for the word to get out, let alone, have the ability to get the word out faster than the confiscation crews are moving.

Another problem is, it's not like it was in the days of our forefathers, where they had specific lines of communication in their communities and abroad. In everyday life now, we don't have the need for messengers like they did. We depend far too much on technology and that has left us soft, complacent and vulnerable. Hell, most people now days don't even know how to communicate without their electronics.

While they may not get them all, I believe with a concerted effort they could get many many more, if not most from a community than most people think could.


Ray

Communication is really a good point to consider after a disaster. It's something I've been thinking more about the last few months. We keep a few Midland handheld radios as part of our emergency kits. I keep one in the bag I keep with me and my wife has one that stays with her (along with extra batteries). Depending on the severity of a subduction zone quake, traditional lines could be down for days, weeks, or longer. We also have 2 weather radios that can run on battery backup as well as a handheld scanner. We may add a shortwave radio at some point too.

You're right that people have become complacent and highly dependent on technology. What will today's young generation do when they can't text or get on social media to communicate? I think once the hissy-fits subside after a few days of electronic withdrawl, they will realize how out of touch and helpless they really are.

Those who have planned ahead for such an eventuality will become a critical resource for those who haven't planned ahead. Bartering communication will likely become a very valuable commodity in such a situation.

One thing I'll add about a quake here that would be different from Katrina, and might help word get around a bit quicker, is that they were under a lot of water, so movement was highly restricted. Likely here, movement on foot, horseback, and maybe even cars to a limited extent (depending on road conditions, blockages) would likely allow a bit more mouth to mouth communication to take place.

 

[Stomper]

They'll run out of cops...

 

[DuneHopper]

They'll run out of cops...

Its then that makes me wonder how the National Guard will be used.

 

[Stomper]

They'll run out of them, too...

 

[Just Jim]

There are roughly 10k people in Silverton if you divide that by say 3 people average in a house hold. Thats roughly 3,330 house holds. If it takes just. 15min per household to confiscate the firearms or guess they dont have any thats equal to. 70 days working 12 hrs per day just to clear tiny Silverton granted 10 teams could do it in a week. Now add the hundreds of households out in the countryside around Silverton.

Theres over 10 times as many households in just Salem

Im not worried.

Plus add to that the weight and volume and it turns into tons of firearms that would have to be moved and tons of ammo. Pysicaly it would take decades to round them up while at the same time people would make more of them.

 

[Just Jim]

Your calculations assume one confiscation team only for all of Silverton.

If they brought in 20 confiscation teams it would take about 4 ten hour days.

Also, I am sure that they would target the house of CHL holders, NFA firearms owners and anybody that is any other list that the gov. has on gun owners first, before just going to any old house and searching it. So 20 teams would clear about half the homes that have a high chance of owning firearms in about 2 days. That assumes they don't work around the clock, and if they had multiple teams, they could do just that - working in shifts.

Until the first shot is fired...

 

[Mark W.]

My eastimation of 15 min per house was meant to show how impossible the numbers become. At many houses I know it would take more then 15min just to csrry the long guns out of the house. At mine it would take them hours to even find them. Little lone to figure out how to access them.

Now add in houses that suffered earthquake damage and as I said an impossible task.

 

[BoonDocks36]

Until the first shot is fired...

And RIGHT THERE, is the Communications that we old Pharts are talking about... Plus the ~the short hairs of your neck~ Standing at ATTENTION!!!!

Who here has combat experience, and Has Not had that itchy tingly feeling, that not all is well in the city of Ahs.... ???

philip...

 

[3MTA3]

Mark W. is correct about the impracticality of disarming everybody in an affected area, unless that area is very small. That doesn't make it any less important to know if firearm confiscation is in their plans. Impracticality has never been a barrier to the govt mentality, and such laws are likely to be selectively enforced.

Here is a scenario where they can get you to turn your firearms: After the disaster strikes you go to whatever emergency food/supply/medical center is set up. They check your name against the list of firearms they have associated to you (OSP has previously been caught maintaining such an illegal list and we only have their promise it's been deleted). The bureaucrat who checks you in notes that you still have firearm sn's registered to you, so until you bring them in it's "no soup for you.

Your family is starving or needs water or medical attention.

I've read a lot of brave talk in this thread, but what do you really do when your family is effectively held hostage?

 

[Just Jim]

Mark W. is correct about the impracticality of disarming everybody in an affected area, unless that area is very small. That doesn't make it any less important to know if firearm confiscation is in their plans. Impracticality has never been a barrier to the govt mentality, and such laws are likely to be selectively enforced.

Here is a scenario where they can get you to turn your firearms: After the disaster strikes you go to whatever emergency food/supply/medical center is set up. They check your name against the list of firearms they have associated to you (OSP has previously been caught maintaining such an illegal list and we only have their promise it's been deleted). The bureaucrat who checks you in notes that you still have firearm sn's registered to you, so until you bring them in it's "no soup for you.

Your family is starving or needs water or medical attention.

I've read a lot of brave talk in this thread, but what do you really do when your family is effectively held hostage?

Then you are taking the first step, first they stop the food to get your guns so you give up your guns. Then they stop the food to force you to work so you become a slave and so does your family. Then they just stop the food and let you starve.

If they demand your rights for food then they are not lawful.

 

[DuneHopper]

There are some scary dynamics that occur in any civilian dismantling be it nature or man.
As I was reading all these great responses what is missing is the human element.
You ever watch big city basket ball playoffs, everyone is enjoying their hotdogs, beer and pretzels. Then these same peaceful people go outside and commit riots. Yep that nice group sitting next to you cheering on and highfiving you is now trying to climb a pole or burn a cop car two hours later. I think if big SHTF, enough to set unrest in motion the authorities that are left would be dealing with looting, rapes, assaults. I doubt very much they would have the man power to go after our firearms. Katrinia was an example for sure, and why firearms were confiscated, the over all harm was done by public on public crime, and yep firearms would have helped some defend themselves but this was a big city area and easily controlled. I was around in California in the 89 quake and people there were actually not bad for the most part, I lived a block from the National Guard and the local and state police not a one ever came to my door. I think the larger cities are at risk as that is always where you hear authorities doing this kinda stuff, smaller towns I think will be exempt mostly from state, and fed interaction. The smaller areas also tend to have higher concentrations per populous of firearms. Good topic for sure.

 

[Just Jim]

Just doesn't make sense to give up your families defense for a few crumbs of bread. Those who would leave you helpless for that same bread are not really there to help you.

 

[3MTA3]

Just doesn't make sense to give up your families defense for a few crumbs of bread. Those who would leave you helpless for that same bread are not really there to help you.

I'm not saying this is what you should do. I am saying this is a likely scenario. If you want to protect your family from this you need to have enough water, food, fuel, and medical supplies to last the duration of a disaster - say 30 days minimum.

If you don't are you prepared to watch your family starve or go without essential medical treatment so you don't have to fork over your guns. It's not necessarily day 1. It might be day 20.