Cascadia Playbook - Does It Contain Emergency Gun Confiscation

[3MTA3]

I heard about the Cascadia Playbook on tonight's news. It's Oregon's just released disaster plan that describes the role, responsibilities and activities of each of Oregon's departments. Thinking back on the crap that was done to the citizens in the wake of Katrina like confiscating firearms and forced relocation to FEMA camps, I decided to take a look.

Guess what - the plan is in published for and is only distributed to a few key people in a few key positions. Yup, you can't see what's inside it. None of the news sources I checked had comments turned on for the announcement article. I'm sure nothing is going on here...

This is the extent of the information available to the public:
http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/public_information/OEM Cascadia Playbook Overview.pdf

Does anybody on this forum have visibility into this document, and if so what does it say about firearm confiscation?

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[DieselScout]

Have you tired requesting a copy from the email address in the document you linked?

 

[bolus]

The prior plan for 2012 was published here
http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/Pages/plans_train/CSZ.aspx#CSZ_Plan

I dont see why they would not update the site with the new one when they get around to it

edit: I dont think you would see anything in official documentation about confiscation anyway. That's the sort of thing that happens during the disaster when someone in a leadership makes a "judgement call" and starts ordering confiscation. I believe it was the mayor in Katrina who up and decided in order to "protect" everyone that only the police should have guns

 

[Mark W.]

There are roughly 10k people in Silverton if you divide that by say 3 people average in a house hold. Thats roughly 3,330 house holds. If it takes just. 15min per household to confiscate the firearms or guess they dont have any thats equal to. 70 days working 12 hrs per day just to clear tiny Silverton granted 10 teams could do it in a week. Now add the hundreds of households out in the countryside around Silverton.

Theres over 10 times as many households in just Salem

Im not worried.

 

[etrain16]

I believe it was the mayor in Katrina who up and decided in order to "protect" everyone that only the police should have guns

Yeah, that would be the criminal former mayor who is currently serving a 10-year sentence in federal prison. Yeah, let's listen to him. People should be very concerned that the politicians in this state would be quick to do exactly the same thing if the big one hit here.

 

[3MTA3]

The prior plan for 2012 was published here
http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/Pages/plans_train/CSZ.aspx#CSZ_Plan

I dont see why they would not update the site with the new one when they get around to it

edit: I dont think you would see anything in official documentation about confiscation anyway. That's the sort of thing that happens during the disaster when someone in a leadership makes a "judgement call" and starts ordering confiscation. I believe it was the mayor in Katrina who up and decided in order to "protect" everyone that only the police should have guns

Thanks - this is very helpful. I agree that confiscation would not be documented anyplace that was easy for the public to see. This is why I was suspicious - the official document is not available to be viewed and is only distributed in printed form to certain people.

I am certain that that what is in the link you provided is in the Cascade Playbook as the structure is identical where I could see. It's the thinks in the printed version that we can't see that I'm still curious about.

Guess I'm just a bit twitchy after our last session of legislative railroading and the recall petition being snuffed out by cronies. At this point I wouldn't put anything past them.

 

[solv3nt]

401.198 Seizure of firearms during emergency. (1) As used in this section, "unit of government" means any department or agency of the federal government and any public body as defined by ORS 174.109.
(2) Notwithstanding ORS 401.165 to 401.236, a unit of government may not seize a firearm from an individual who lawfully possesses the firearm during a state of emergency declared under ORS 401.165.
(3) If a unit of government seizes a firearm from an individual during a state of emergency in violation of this section, the individual may recover from the unit of government that seized the firearm all costs incurred in the recovery of the firearm, including attorney fees, court costs and any other costs incurred in the recovery of the firearm. [Formerly 401.039]

<broken link removed>

 

[bolus]

Thanks - this is very helpful. I agree that confiscation would not be documented anyplace that was easy for the public to see. This is why I was suspicious - the official document is not available to be viewed and is only distributed in printed form to certain people.

I am certain that that what is in the link you provided is in the Cascade Playbook as the structure is identical where I could see. It's the thinks in the printed version that we can't see that I'm still curious about.

Guess I'm just a bit twitchy after our last session of legislative railroading and the recall petition being snuffed out by cronies. At this point I wouldn't put anything past them.

I left a message at the Office of Emergency management requesting a copy of the playbook being a physician in a rural community so I can be prepared. (Actually a good idea since we are 60 minutes away from any major hospital and people will probably start showing up here in a real emergency)

I'll update if they give me a copy.

 

[etrain16]

401.198 Seizure of firearms during emergency. (1) As used in this section, "unit of government" means any department or agency of the federal government and any public body as defined by ORS 174.109.
(2) Notwithstanding ORS 401.165 to 401.236, a unit of government may not seize a firearm from an individual who lawfully possesses the firearm during a state of emergency declared under ORS 401.165.
(3) If a unit of government seizes a firearm from an individual during a state of emergency in violation of this section, the individual may recover from the unit of government that seized the firearm all costs incurred in the recovery of the firearm, including attorney fees, court costs and any other costs incurred in the recovery of the firearm. [Formerly 401.039]

<broken link removed>

That's good information to have on hand. I think I'll get this printed and stick it in my wallet.

 

[U201491]

401.198 Seizure of firearms during emergency. (1) As used in this section, "unit of government" means any department or agency of the federal government and any public body as defined by ORS 174.109.
(2) Notwithstanding ORS 401.165 to 401.236, a unit of government may not seize a firearm from an individual who lawfully possesses the firearm during a state of emergency declared under ORS 401.165.
(3) If a unit of government seizes a firearm from an individual during a state of emergency in violation of this section, the individual may recover from the unit of government that seized the firearm all costs incurred in the recovery of the firearm, including attorney fees, court costs and any other costs incurred in the recovery of the firearm. [Formerly 401.039]

<broken link removed>

Best piece of information yet. Also if they are breaking the law we have the right to fight back then. !!
Regardless of that statement the Constitution installed the 2nd for just that right.
SO lets hope and then make sure they abide by the "law"

 

[elsie]

You might try an FoI request to get a copy as well.


elsie

 

[The Heretic]

There are roughly 10k people in Silverton if you divide that by say 3 people average in a house hold. Thats roughly 3,330 house holds. If it takes just. 15min per household to confiscate the firearms or guess they dont have any thats equal to. 70 days working 12 hrs per day just to clear tiny Silverton granted 10 teams could do it in a week. Now add the hundreds of households out in the countryside around Silverton.

Theres over 10 times as many households in just Salem

Im not worried.

Your calculations assume one confiscation team only for all of Silverton.

If they brought in 20 confiscation teams it would take about 4 ten hour days.

Also, I am sure that they would target the house of CHL holders, NFA firearms owners and anybody that is any other list that the gov. has on gun owners first, before just going to any old house and searching it. So 20 teams would clear about half the homes that have a high chance of owning firearms in about 2 days. That assumes they don't work around the clock, and if they had multiple teams, they could do just that - working in shifts.

 

[U201491]

It would end in a blood bath also. Both sides
That is Americans killing other good Americans.
Those opposing the Constitution would then be considered tyrant traitors to the Nation. Its the way it works. Katrina was once too many times for that to happen and it set the alarms and it set the future outcome of what would happen in any future attempts to do the same.
Not the best outcome but we can hope they are not that dumb again. That would be a better outcome.

 

[BoonDocks36]

It would end in a blood bath also. Both sides
That is Americans killing other good Americans.

EDITED TO Correct thought provoking Statement...

Those opposing the Constitution would then be considered tyrant traitors to the Nation. Its the way it works. Katrina was once too many times for that to happen and it set the alarms and it set the future outcome of what would happen in any future attempts to do the same.
Not the best outcome but we can hope they are not that dumb again. That would be a better outcome.

~No Good American~ would be involved on that side, End of Sentence, End of thought Process....

Think upon ~Good American~ my Brother Patriot.

philip

 

[Mark W.]

Your calculations assume one confiscation team only for all of Silverton.

If they brought in 20 confiscation teams it would take about 4 ten hour days.

Also, I am sure that they would target the house of CHL holders, NFA firearms owners and anybody that is any other list that the gov. has on gun owners first, before just going to any old house and searching it. So 20 teams would clear about half the homes that have a high chance of owning firearms in about 2 days. That assumes they don't work around the clock, and if they had multiple teams, they could do just that - working in shifts.

How would skipping any house insure that they actually confiscated the firearms. How would leaving say 10% of the firearms in place do any good.

And you completely missed my point. I was only talking about Silverton.

What about Mt. Angel, Woodburn, Mollala, Scotts Mills, Sublimity, Stayton, Mill City, Sico, Jefferson, Albany, etc etc etc.

They going to send 20 teams to each small town all at the same time.

Cause 5 min after they left the first house in Silverton 10% of the other houses in Silverton would know what they were doing. And an hour after that half the houses in town would know.

There were 484,674 people in New Orleans before Katrina. Lets assume a since the population of the USA is about 350 million and the best guesses on how many firearms are in the USA puts the number around 300-350 million. Its not a stretch to assume there was one firearm for every person in New Orleans. Yet the wildest estimates are the National Guard Kids and a Few cops confiscated about 1000 firearms according to the city and the NRA suit brought against the city for the return of those firearms. That is a pretty dang small percentage of the likely 450K+ firearms in New Orleans at the time.

My point is it is and will remain logistically impossible to go door to door to confiscate firearms.

There are plenty of real things to worry about. In my opinion this sure isn't one of them.

 

[etrain16]

~No Good American~ would be involved on that side, End of Sentence, End of thought Process....

Think upon ~Good American~ my Brother Patriot.

philip

Reading some of the stories from Katrina and how the bully LE's, military/Coast Guard were forcefully removing guns from law abiding gun owners, I have to wonder what the hell was going on in the damn heads of the people that were sworn to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Apparently that didn't mean much to them as they went through basically looting guns from lawful citizens. Makes me sick to see LEO's and Military personnel that are so quick to take our rights away, I would have hoped that they would draw the line at orders that contradict the very oath they take.

Many military have stated they would not take part in any kind of gun grab if ordered to do so. But Katrina seemed to tell a different story.

 

[The Heretic]

*my* point was that it wouldn't take as long as you stated

And that would be key to the success of the effort for the very reasons you stated in your follow up; people would talk, word would get around and the faster they get it done the more effective it would be

Of course no confiscation effort will be 100% effective, but OTOH, don't plan on it take them weeks to get around to your house. Unless you were like my dad and never bought a firearm with "paper", always bought privately or before the '68 GCA, then you will be on a list somewhere and you will be among the first to be visited.

The more firearms you have bought through an FFL (or since the BGC laws went into effect), the higher you will be on that list. Then there will be the type of firearms you bought and how recently you bought them. Add into that any other purchases that would indicate you could be a threat, and were made with any kind of electronic funds transfer (ATM or credit card, etc.).

the gov. already has this info and they already have the software to weigh the different criteria and make a list, and they can do it by address and they can whip out a plan as fast as they want - aren't computers great?

The thing is; don't count on the fact that it won't be 100% effective, or that people will spread the word and some people will be able to hide their firearms. Your door may be among the first they come knocking on.

Personally, I doubt that they would bother too much with this anywhere but in a large densely populated metro area like Portland, maybe Salem or Eugene. They will have enough things to deal with, without having to go around and confiscate all firearms everywhere. I just wouldn't live in an urban area.

 

[The Heretic]

Reading some of the stories from Katrina and how the bully LE's, military/Coast Guard were forcefully removing guns from law abiding gun owners, I have to wonder what the hell was going on in the damn heads of the people that were sworn to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Apparently that didn't mean much to them as they went through basically looting guns from lawful citizens. Makes me sick to see LEO's and Military personnel that are so quick to take our rights away, I would have hoped that they would draw the line at orders that contradict the very oath they take.

Many military have stated they would not take part in any kind of gun grab if ordered to do so. But Katrina seemed to tell a different story.

Like anybody else, for many people in an LE org or a military unit, the oath taking was a formality they gave little thought to. When it comes to keeping their job or breaking the constitution, they will do their job - just like most other people.

I was in the USCG for 6 years, about 50% of the enlisted are junior enlisted with less than 4 years in service, and they joined when they were 17 or 18 years of age. I made a habit of asking them why they joined, and most said it was either something they did on a whim, or because they needed a job. They aren't going to risk a court martial and disobey a direct order.

 

[Lilhigbee]

3330X 15 minutes= 832.5 hrs./ 12 hrs/day~70 days/ 10 teams = 7 days, per Mark W.

3330X 15 minutes=832.5 hrs./ 10 hrs/day~ 83 days/ 20 teams = 4.15 days, per The Heretic

 

[U201491]

How would skipping any house insure that they actually confiscated the firearms. How would leaving say 10% of the firearms in place do any good.

And you completely missed my point. I was only talking about Silverton.

What about Mt. Angel, Woodburn, Mollala, Scotts Mills, Sublimity, Stayton, Mill City, Sico, Jefferson, Albany, etc etc etc.

They going to send 20 teams to each small town all at the same time.

Cause 5 min after they left the first house in Silverton 10% of the other houses in Silverton would know what they were doing. And an hour after that half the houses in town would know.

There were 484,674 people in New Orleans before Katrina. Lets assume a since the population of the USA is about 350 million and the best guesses on how many firearms are in the USA puts the number around 300-350 million. Its not a stretch to assume there was one firearm for every person in New Orleans. Yet the wildest estimates are the National Guard Kids and a Few cops confiscated about 1000 firearms according to the city and the NRA suit brought against the city for the return of those firearms. That is a pretty dang small percentage of the likely 450K+ firearms in New Orleans at the time.

My point is it is and will remain logistically impossible to go door to door to confiscate firearms.

There are plenty of real things to worry about. In my opinion this sure isn't one of them.

It may not be real to you but to most it is very real. So why don't you just not worry about it or the thread.
We will worry about what is real or not for us.
OK ok !