Carrying Rifles in Cars

[Lantraxco]

You talking to me? I said from a rig but anyway.

Making a little joke, but yeah don't know if it's still that way but the police used to impound stolen cars and write the thief a citation for "unauthorized use of a motor vehicle" and release them. A real deterrent to crime as I recall.

 

[Scvette]

Not true,if you have a CPL,it doesn't need to be on you.it can be anywhere in the car.no CPL DS...the quote I was referring to didn't show.someone said you have to have your weapon on you in your car.

 

[mjbskwim]

First friend, respectfully, lighten up. When I said I was speculating, I was doing just that. Please let me decide what I "should" or should not do. That my friend is the American way, and it is great!

Here's my thinking: Under current law, a city or county may regulate the presence of loaded firearms in public places. Check it out:

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.173

Note that ORS 166.173(2)(c) indicates "a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun" is exempted from any such local regulation or restriction.

Next, a public place is generally defined as a place to which the public has access to. At any rate, language to that effect is in ORS 161.015(10), as follows:

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/161.015

Now for some reason, in a decision called Bryan Ward VS State of Oregon, an Oregon Appeals Court concluded that one's own car is a "public place." Here is OFF's post about it:

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/102-14-08-oregon-court-of-appeals-deals-major-blow-to-gun-rights

Put that information together, and it adds up to this: Your car is a public place. Although cities and counties may regulate loaded firearms in public places, these regulations do not apply to "a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun."

So, if CPL holders are exempt from local regulation of loaded firearms in public places, it would seem the only remaining authority would be the ORS. That mirrors the language of Oregon's preemption clause, spelled out in ORS 166.170:

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.170

Note that the statute states "except as expressly authorized by state statue," the State reserves the authority to regulate "any matter whatsoever" regarding, among others, the "possession, storage, transportation or use of firearms."

All such matters regarding firearms that the State of Oregon has chosen to regulate are described in ORS Chapter 166, available here:

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/chapter/166

Reviewing ORS Chapter 166, I found no regulations regarding long arms, loaded or unloaded, in vehicles. I'm not aware anyone else has found such a regulation there either.

So, finally, adding everything up what we have is this: State law does not regulate long arms in cars. Cities and counties may regulate loaded firearms in public places, but these regulations do not apply to CPL holders. Your car is, unfortunately, now a public space. However, if you have a CPL, whatever regulations might be in effect in the city or county you're driving through do not apply to you.

I agree that it doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense that having a Concealed Pistol License would allow you to legally store your AR in your SUV while you're waiting for Thai food at a food cart in downtown Portland. But that's exactly where we're at.

Does that satisfy your desire for specific citations, MJ?

GREAT! Just as you can do WETFYW I can too.
And there is kinda an unspoken rule that IF you start talking what the laws are,since they are on line and you can put a link on here,that you post a link .
When you are trying to quote law.
Speculation doesn't do anyone any good. If you post a link then others can make their choice easier and more educated.
So you lighten up and post links for thing you say are law.
Not that big of deal if you have internet connection
Don't like someone telling you to post a link? Don't tell us what the laws are without one

 

[DirtyBird]

GREAT! Just as you can do WETFYW I can too.
And there is kinda an unspoken rule that IF you start talking what the laws are,since they are on line and you can put a link on here,that you post a link .
When you are trying to quote law.
Speculation doesn't do anyone any good. If you post a link then others can make their choice easier and more educated.
So you lighten up and post links for thing you say are law.
Not that big of deal if you have internet connection
Don't like someone telling you to post a link? Don't tell us what the laws are without one

MJ, in my last post I included links to a metric ton of statute and court precedent. What am I missing here, brother?

 

[Certaindeaf]

Boy, we're selling popcorn here now!

 

[Certaindeaf]

double post

 

[fxdc]

When did this thread go sideways? ??? LOL

 

[JAFO]

Please cite your sources; we may all need them as a defense soon enough

CHL has nothing to do with long guns - a CHL is all about handguns, not long guns.

Show me the cite in Oregon law where a CHL makes any difference in how you carry or store long guns.

The word to pay attention to is "firearm". Handgun, long gun, shot gun, rifle, etc. all fall under the word firearm.

§ 166.173¹
Authority of city or county to regulate possession of loaded firearms in public places

(1) A city or county may adopt ordinances to regulate, restrict or prohibit the possession of loaded firearms in public places as defined in ORS 161.015 (General definitions).

(2) Ordinances adopted under subsection (1) of this section do not apply to or affect:

(a) A law enforcement officer in the performance of official duty.

(b) A member of the military in the performance of official duty.

(c) A person licensed to carry a concealed handgun.

(d) A person authorized to possess a loaded firearm while in or on a public building or court facility under ORS 166.370 (Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility).

(e) An employee of the United States Department of Agriculture, acting within the scope of employment, who possesses a loaded firearm in the course of the lawful taking of wildlife. [1995 s.s. c.1 §4; 1999 c.782 §8; 2009 c.556 §3]​

 

[The Heretic]

Thanks for the cite - that is what I was looking for.

 

[Lantraxco]

When did this thread go sideways? ??? LOL

About the time I dropped in as usual, LOL!

 

[mjbskwim]

About the time I dropped in as usual, LOL!

Oh good,I though it was me

 

[JAFO]

Thanks for the cite - that is what I was looking for.

It was past my bedtime when I made the reply so I didn't bother bringing up the ORS at that time. I didn't notice the questions until today or I'd have replied sooner. I wasn't intentionally being obtuse though I do that on occasion.

 

[The Heretic]

I understand, and thanks.

I just prefer cites when it comes to stuff like this. I saw a bunch of websites talking about "guns" and CHLs in reference to this issue, but they never cited the actual law, and too many people write "guns" when they mean handguns, or they just repeat what they heard.

When it comes down to it, the authoritative reference is the actual law, and it pays to be careful because the DA/judge/court are not going to care that you heard it somewhere if it isn't in the actual law itself.

 

[Lantraxco]

I understand, and thanks.

I just prefer cites when it comes to stuff like this. I saw a bunch of websites talking about "guns" and CHLs in reference to this issue, but they never cited the actual law, and too many people write "guns" when they mean handguns, or they just repeat what they heard.

When it comes down to it, the authoritative reference is the actual law, and it pays to be careful because the DA/judge/court are not going to care that you heard it somewhere if it isn't in the actual law itself.

Agreed. Problem is even then the DA can twist it all he wants and the judge and possibly a jury may be all too eager to buy it.

 

[JAFO]

In WA state unless the weapon is on your person, it is illegal to have it loaded in your vehicle even if the engine is off and the key is in your pocket!

WHAAAT????
Give some reference there bubba. You are blowing smoke.I have gone over the laws in WA many times and it says nothing about that. You can not have a loaded rifle in the vehicle but you can have a loaded handgun with a carry permit. It says nothing about where the weapon needs to be except hidden if you are out of the vehicle
Go do some research before you make statements please
Here's a couple links for you to catch up on
http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070
http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

I can't speak for 44 Guy but I have little doubt he was referring to RCW 9.41.050:

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.
....
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and:

(i) The pistol is on the licensee's person,
(ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or
(iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.​

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.​

...

He might not have noticed the "OR" which has some weight in the interpretation. Since there is no "and" nor "or" between (i) and (ii) the "or" between (ii) and (iii) applies to all three; 2(a) and (i), or 2(a) and (ii), or 2a and (iii).

It's common to misunderstand and was confusing to me at one point.

 

[The Heretic]

Agreed. Problem is even then the DA can twist it all he wants and the judge and possibly a jury may be all too eager to buy it.

But you stand an infinitely better chance of beating the rap if the law and a good lawyer are on your side.

 

[JAFO]

I understand, and thanks.

I just prefer cites when it comes to stuff like this. I saw a bunch of websites talking about "guns" and CHLs in reference to this issue, but they never cited the actual law, and too many people write "guns" when they mean handguns, or they just repeat what they heard.

When it comes down to it, the authoritative reference is the actual law, and it pays to be careful because the DA/judge/court are not going to care that you heard it somewhere if it isn't in the actual law itself.

Sure but that should go both ways. When you tell someone to be safe by taking certain precautions perhaps you might cite the Statute/Code/Infraction they might violate.

The confusion is somewhat understandable when you have cities like Portland and the Port of Portland that make "laws" or regulations that are not enforceable but this one isn't as confusing as a lot of people make it.

 

[fxdc]

If you see a pocket ORS book.
At a book store get it, they are printed each year as laws change.

 

[rick benjamin]

Or, read it here

 

[winchester270]

My solution was to just get really good and accurate with my Glock 19. I traded in my daily carry of a pocket pistols and upgraded to a larger gun with higher capacity so I could bridge the gap between small pistol and rifle.
Just a different option