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Carrying in the workplace

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by smonkbmw, Jan 24, 2009.

  1. smonkbmw

    smonkbmw Vancouver WA Member

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    So the quick story is this. Im out having a fantastic dinner with the wife tonight. She decides to tell me a lil story. Apparently the business next to them (a beauty supply store) was held up by a lady armed with.......mace. She made off with the days cash etc. This all went down at 730pm.....yes the shop was still open as was her store. The only thing that could be done at her store was the manager locked the doors, with the customers inside. Yes a considerate move by him, but not enough for me and that leads me to my question.

    She has a brand new Sig 229 9mm. It sits and collects dust for the majority of the time. Ive asked her if she would carry it in her purse at work if she had her CWP. Her answer is no because its against company policy. Now im confused, because if this is a country that it is our right to carry and bear arms. I have a brand new handgun for her, but i also suggested maybe she can carry that new Kimber personal defense spray gun. But why buy a $100+ pepper spray gun if she already has a $800 Sig?

    SO, would it be illegal for them to fire her due to her carrying a gun concealed while at work?

    I would'nt think so, and its not like she would flash it around and it would stay zipped up in her purse until needed obviously. I dunno, I'm kinda peeved that its a offense that she can be terminated for.
     
  2. NWMoss

    NWMoss Lost, permanently... Member

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    Get her a Galco purse for her birthday!

    We can let the threat of losing a job keep us from insuring our lives or we can insure our lives so we can find another job another day.

    As worried as she is about it, if she keeps it to herself nobody should find out.

    Here's a question: Would you be comfortable with a teacher having a gun hidden somewhere for the protection of your kids?
     
  3. Ryan

    Ryan Beaverton Or Member

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    Thats a tough question, and one thats way to general to answer. Like anyone, I very much depends on the person. There were a few teachers I had in highschool that I would have had no problem with them carrying, (and really wouldn't be suprised if they were) and there are others that I would barely trust with a sharp stick.
     
  4. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You trust the teacher with your kids right now! You really have little say in the matter, and even less information to get a substantive judgment about the teacher. If they qualified for a Concealed Carry Permit, and had one that would be enough for me.
     
  5. Rix

    Rix Tacoma Active Member

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    Pretty sure an employer can fire an employee for any reason they choose in Wa.
     
  6. Otis

    Otis Vancouver, WA Member

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    Unfortunately there are two things going against your wife.

    One yes Washington is an at will state. So you can get fired for any reason and without warning, even showing up one minuet late can constitute getting fired. That goes for docking your pay as well. If they don’t want to fire you they can decrease your pay at any time and for any reason.

    Second is that it is private property, you cannot carry on private property if that owner does not want you to.

    So the Policy is very legal.

    On the other hand if she does want to chance it and carry any way, as long as she is discrete then there shouldn’t be a problem. If that dreaded time ever comes where she would have to use it and ended up saving the day I would bet her boss will let it slide, or at least I would hope they would.
     
  7. Otis

    Otis Vancouver, WA Member

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    They would have to do more than qualify for a permit. In Washington you just have to have a pulse to get one, doesn’t mean you know how to handle a firearm let alone with my child in the room. It scares me just thinking about it.
     
  8. emanon

    emanon SE Portland, Oregon Member

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    It's terrible to hear things like this coming from folks here: You already trust your kids with these people and realistically the teachers may already be carrying anyway...

    Everything else being equal, then of course I want the teachers to be armed!
     
  9. Weathermaker

    Weathermaker Washington Member

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    Hmmm. Boss to female employee, "Sorry, we're going to have to fire you because you're pregnant."

    I don't think so.
     
  10. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Okay so how much do you know about your child's teacher? Is their information posted somewhere? Do you really know anything about them? Other than the occasional five minute meeting, where they are on their best behavior. What kind of interface do you have to know your current teacher is okay? what standards do you apply for them be in the same room with your child, gun or no gun, right now?

    Our school officials don't seem to know that much about our teachers, how can you expect to?

    Personally, whether they carry a gun or not is the least of my worries. What is that teacher teaching?

    We know so little about our teachers, so we must be running on blind trust.

    I guess we could always let TSA do the background checks and run the security at our schools. That shouldn't take more than a couple of hours extra a day while half the kids get strip searched before class.

    I am not worried whether a teacher carries or not, same blind trust
     
  11. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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    Pregnancy is a protected condition, even in at will states. To be clear, employers in Washington and Oregon can fire you for any reason as long is it's not related to a protected class or condition.
     
  12. fromotoc

    fromotoc Downtown Portland, OR Member

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    I have some real life experience with this. I used to own a car, and when I did, I carried either a shotgun or 9mm handgun in it at all times. I always tried to cover it up, but I guess one day I didn't do such a great job and an employee told our HR department. I get a call on my radio to meet HR in their offices (which is never a good thing) and they inform me that it is against company policy to bring firearms on company property. I got a warning for this. If I get another warning, I lose my job.

    I don't know if any company would allow guns on company property, other than the obvious companies (police stations, etc...). It is really up to you, personally, I do not want to lose my job, I think it is a bad time to lose a job. So I don't carry. I work in an area that has normal gang activity, and there are murders around here every year. Remember, a gun is not the only option. I carry various knives, wear SAP gloves when walking to public transportation, have a taser and pepper spray on me, wear a baton and am taking boxing classes. Might get a cold steel sword cane, too. Would it be easier to carry? Of course. But I am sure if your wife got caught with a gun at work, she'd be fired on the spot. If she was caught with the other stuff I mentioned? None of it is illegal to own/carry (maybe the knives), and it could be explained that each of the self defense tools are used for different purposes. Example:

    Knives- To open containers, etc..
    SAP Gloves- They look like normal gloves, and we live in the freezing NW.
    Taser- Used to zap bugs, or as a Defribillator machine.
    Pepper Spray- Used as a tasty condiment.
    Baton- It has a magnetic piece on the end to pick up dropped metal pieces.

    Just know that if your wife does carry to work, and gets caught, she will probably get fired. Or get a warning. The right to bear arms doesn't seem to be much of a right these days, so I would make decisions based upon that assumption.
     
  13. wakeadrian

    wakeadrian Beaverton Member

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    I've been thinking about this a lot also, my boss is pro-gun and very conservative, but I don't think he'll be too happy with me carrying my concealed weapon when I get it in April (I doubt he'll tell me no, but I'm sure he'll make it known that he's not too happy). And I know my co-manager will hate it (She hates guns). But to be honest, I work in an area with lots of gang activity and I've been robbed in the past. When push comes to shove, I have every intention of carrying. And I also agree with the fact that losing your job isn't a great idea in the economy.
    I think her better route with her boss would be to try to show him that her having it wouldn't be a bad thing. Show him that to carry concealed, she has to pass a very good background check and take him with you guys to a range and show him that she knows how to be responsible with her firearm. (A handgun safety class might be helpful also) Also, show that she'll properly be able to conceal it and customers will never know. If a time comes that it needs to come out, they will probably all be thankful that she was there with it. Ask him what his biggest problems/fears with it are, and do the research necessary to show him the other side of it. The "what-ifs" if she didn't have her weapon at a time that she needed it.
    :twocents:
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  14. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    If they can't trust you, they shouldn't have hired you in the first place.

    If you can't trust them, you shouldn't work with them. (Which also gives them access to a lot of personal areas and information of your life.)

    I will always carry. And so will my wife. Your work place probably has little to no way of protecting you from anything. A pissed off employee goes on a rampage? Your boss will be hiding under his desk, and you know it.

    They have no right to tell you not to carry. I shouldn't have to risk a broken bone, severe beating, or even a sore muscle, in order to protect myself.
    And I didn't. I worked for a financial company, in a nice quiet office with other people tapping away at computers, and I was in direct violation of the bosses weapons rules while I was in office. But there wasn't so much as a security guard or camera, so what right did she have?
     
  15. fromotoc

    fromotoc Downtown Portland, OR Member

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    Those absolutes don't really apply. I don't trust them, I have never placed an adequate amount of trust in any company I worked for. I would be surprised to find someone who truly trusts their company. That doesn't mean I don't have bills to pay, and mouths to feed. A lot of us are comprimising in the work place, and if you aren't, then that is great. Yea, they hired me, but not to carry a gun. I work to make sure the building doesn't fall apart. And I am at times the security for my workplace. I think it is rediculous we don't have some sort of weapon. I have suggested at every safety meeting that we carry/learn how to use some sort of weapon. The company policy is to wait for the police to get there. And, frankly, if that is the policy, then I will follow it. If there is a gunman, I will run away. They do have a right to tell you if you can't bring a gun onto their property, it is private property. I know that someday something will happen, and the person whose shift it falls on will wish they had a gun. At least 2 times a week I am confronting trespassers, and they are hostile often. If you work for a company, you have most likely signed an agreement that states you will follow all their rules while you work there. If they don't want you carrying a gun on their property, then you are breaking their rules. This gives them the right, and when I signed this I knew I couldn't carry on their property, but to have a gun in my car in a parking lot away from the building? Thats a little rediculous. It sucks, but it is what it is. Once you sign a statement saying you will abide by their rules, you have given up all your rights, and you are legally bound by that agreement. If you break the rules, they can fire you. All I am trying to do is warn the OP that if your wife does carry at work and it is not in line with their rules, she risks getting fired.
     
  16. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Then I will just not work for that company. End of story.

    And yes, she may get fired for carrying. But that's a worthwhile risk.

    My wife and I are fully prepared and ready to live life with no money. We are avid outdoors people, and have the skills necessary if that's the route we had to take. No one can tell you that you can't protect yourself. -No one-. And I sleep much better at night knowing that I stuck by my convictions. I will continue to do so, for better or worst. :)
     
  17. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I believe this issue is headed to the Oregon Supreme Court. Anyone remember the teacher in Medford who wanted to carry because of her estranged husband? The school district told her no, so she sued. At this time the court isn't on her side, but I don't think it's over.

    My wife used to carry at work. She had to open up by herself early in the morning.Only one person knew but he blabbed. Due to new corporate ownership we now have a policy that forbids having a gun at work. She had to change shifts because neither her or I wanted her to be here by herself with out her snubbie.

    Eventhough we have this policy (I work for the same company) I'm considering the purchase of a small pocket pistol and in the pocket holster. Just look at what happened saturday night at The Zone. So many whacked out people around here you never know what day might be the day you should have brought a gun.

    Buy your wife that purse. Tell her to use it and tell no one about it. Then send her off to work...armed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2009
  18. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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    The right not to pay you. And you have the right to leave their employ without condition.
     
  19. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly what I meant, Dolooper.
    I was never found with a weapon, and the job ended on good terms.


    Speaking morally, not legally.
     
  20. NWMoss

    NWMoss Lost, permanently... Member

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    Uh... I hope you're not planning on telling him. Of course that's up to you, but my opinion is the less who know, the better.

    If I carry and get fired for it, that will be the happiest day of my life. I'll stand up for my rights.

    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -
    -- Winston Churchill

    My boss knows I'm a gun nut by now. He's a raging republican though, he makes me proud :D