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Carry in Oregon restaurants...? (Hillsboro/Beaverton/...Portland?)

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by CharlesAFerg, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    I'm curious how one goes about this.

    Can one open carry their concealed rig in a restaurant? Given they are out of the bar area marked (21+) where they serve alcohol... Just curious about regulations regarding that, also establishments that serve alcohol, etc...

    If I have a CHL, what would my restrictions be in these situations?
     
  2. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Oregon has no law against carrying where alcohol is served, so you're fully legal to carry in bars and restaurants.

    As for the restrictions, I know Federal buildings are off limits, but I'd double check to see where else.
     
  3. 2 Glock 9s

    2 Glock 9s Medford, OR New Member

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    Oregon does not have any laws against carrying in bars or other establishments that serve alcohol. It should be noted, however, that bars and restaurants are PRIVATE PROPERTY and, as such, trespassing laws apply. Property owners and management have the legal right to set rules that you must abide by as a condition of being allowed on their property. If you carry a weapon onto private property where you know that being disarmed is a condition of entry or if you remain on property after being asked to leave due to the fact that you are carrying a weapon, you can be arrested for trespassing. It has absolutely nothing to do with gun laws.

    I have never been an advocate of open carry. I only open carry in the national forest where I go camping and hunting. I honestly think that it causes more problems than it could possibly be worth. If you have a concealed handgun license, save yourself the trouble and keep it concealed.
     
  4. berettamod96

    berettamod96 Member

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    An arrest for trespassing rarely if ever occurs in the above example. The offender is often given a choice of disarming or leaving and not coming back while armed. If feathers are ruffled in the process the armed offender may be "tresspassed" from the property which basically is a restraining order for a place rather than a person. Further incursions into the property can and likely will result in arrest at that time.
     
  5. 2 Glock 9s

    2 Glock 9s Medford, OR New Member

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    Although arrests are rarely made for this type of trespassing, it can happen. Usually what happens is the management or property owner is unfamiliar with gun laws and believes that guns are illegal. They usually will call the police. The police will come and surround the building. After a little talking to from the police, you will get to give your side of the story. They will then tell you to either disarm or leave. At this point you have three options:
    1. Disarm
    2. Leave
    3. Become belligerent with the officer and defy the request
    If you choose 1 or 2, you will be okay. Choice 3 will lead to your arrest. I would usually opt for #2.


    I made the mistake of going to McDonald's while open carrying once. The manager truly believed that gun ownership was limited to the military and police. He asked me what I was doing carrying a gun and told me that guns are illegal in the United States. I told him that the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and Oregon law both allowed guns. He said "we'll see about that" and walked away. He called the police and told them that there was a man with a gun in his lobby. Every officer in town came and surrounded that McDonald's. The manager tried his damnedest to get me arrested for trespassing. The only reason I got out of it was because the employees let the police know that the manager was retarded and that I was never asked to leave.


    Avoid the problem - keep it concealed.
     
  6. 2 Glock 9s

    2 Glock 9s Medford, OR New Member

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    Also, take note of where the OP is. The Portland Police are not well known for their tolerance of civilians with guns.
     
  7. berettamod96

    berettamod96 Member

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    Its difficult at best to get somebody trespassed from a public property without prior warning to that person. According to Oregon law even no trespassing signs on your property are basically assumed to be null and void if its commonly known that you make exceptions beyond immediate family. For example if they can cite examples where delivery people like UPS have been exempt from this the whole house of cards falls to pieces.
     
  8. 2 Glock 9s

    2 Glock 9s Medford, OR New Member

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    I'm not trying to be too picky here, but we are talking about private property where trespassing laws can be enforced, not public property.
    I don't know about you, but I have never seen any UPS employees openly carrying a firearm while making deliveries. Although you may be able to say that other people have been allowed onto property, we are talking about carrying weapons onto private property against the property owner's rules. I think it would be quite difficult to cite an example of exceptions being made to allow someone carrying a firearm onto private property where it is otherwise prohibited.

    I still agree that it is not likely that someone is going to be arrested for carrying a firearm on private property where it is not permitted. It can happen though, especially if you refuse to disarm or leave when asked to.
     
  9. berettamod96

    berettamod96 Member

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    A restaraunt is a private company that is publically accessible. When its accessible they arent going to arrest you right away without some sort of warning. In the case of McDonalds you could almost argue its no longer a private company because its a publically traded stock. Anyway if they arrest you they will nail you for something else unless you have been forewarned about staying clear of the place and have come back. As for the UPS people it doesnt matter if they carry or not. I was just referring to the legality of the signs posted at a private domicile and when it isnt legally binding. I think you missed the point. Property law, like any other kind of law is overly complicated and often requires the services of a lawyer to really hash out. Fortunately I have gone through a great deal of law before deciding that I dont really believe in the system.

    Anyway back to the original question about open carry in a restaraunt, While it may be perfectly legal city ordnances not withstanding, its probably not prudent especially near a city such as portland where the libtards reign supreme. In my own firearms class prior to getting my concealed carry permit a deputy DA showed up and told us that we needed to decide between carrying concealed or carrying openly and that by applying for and recieving a concealed carry license we agree to carry only concealed. of course this doesnt apply to the range and during other outdoor activities such as hiking, hunting and the like but in the interest of preventing alarm among the sheep we conceal.
     
  10. Mac10

    Mac10 Oregon New Member

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    Open carry may be legal in Oregon, but I personally don't see the need to raise any alarms. As was stated above: conceal.

    I'm all for excercising one's rights, but if it gets you tossed from an otherwise nice place, why cause the commotion?
     
  11. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    oops
     
  12. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    I OC in Eugene all the time, even downtown around the police and sheriff's stations. Never had a single stare or whisper even. I know, it surprised me at first too, given the nature of Eugene. They either just don't care, or think I'm a cop. Either way, never had even the tiniest hassle or second look around here. The Eugene PD and Lane co. SO admit they are all fully aware that even without a permit, there is no law against OC in Eugen or Lane Co, and they have told me they could car less if people do it.

    Now, they did say if they get the dreaded "man with a gun" call, they will have to come check things out, but if all you are doing is going about your normal business while carrying, they will just make contact to check things out, then let you go on your merry way. They claim they do not do the old "disturbing the peace" or "brandishing" B.S. charges like happens in some places. So far as I know, they were telling the truth, as I have never even had to talk to the cops, and was OCing just last week in line at the local store with 2 Eugen PD cops in uniform directly behind me in line. Not even a smile or whisper, and theres no way they didn't notice the 5'4" 145lb guy with the full size 1911 in the big black OWB holster in front of them.:D

    YMMV in other cities/counties though, so do what you feel is best for you,for whatever reason you choses, as thats all that matters.I REALLY hate the ccw vs oc battles I see all the time on forums.I could care less how, when, or where someone legally carries, and would appreciate them giving me the same courtesy. As long as it's legal, it's a personal choice, for personal reasons, and everyone's feelings, beliefs, thought, perceptions, and situations are different, so we need to not be judging others (not saying anyone here is), as no one has any way of know another persons situation or reasons.

    Guns owners would do a LOT better by sticking together, or at least not putting each other down, battling over personal choices, preferences, etc. No reason to be like high school kids breaking ourselves up into little groups and arguing over who is better, smarter, cooler, safer, more tactical, helping the "cause" more, etc. Gun owners seem to have a problem being supportive of other peoples choices (not including things that are illegal or unsafe, obviously, feel free to rip on people for that stuff :D)


    BTW, the above has nothing to do with anyone here, or anything anyone here said.Just a little rant that popped out due to a number of recent nasty OC vs CCW battle threads on THR and TFL the last few months.
     
  13. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    This is definitely worth repeating. Great post ;)

     
  14. Oohrah

    Oohrah NorthwestSouthern Oregon Coast Member

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    It would be nice if all states would allow any concealed carry to be
    allowable from other states. A national carry. Oregon Federal
    Offices, Courthouses, and Indian land unless permission by tribal
    police or chief are not allowed. Posted businesses that I have not
    seen can also be considered.
     
  15. davlandrum

    davlandrum New Member

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    Key word in that sentence is ALMOST.

    Publically traded companies still own private property. Even if I own Microsoft stock, it doesn't mean they are going to let me wander around unescorted around their company.
     
  16. berettamod96

    berettamod96 Member

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    Actually come to think of it, I believe they are completely a public company. I could be wrong here but it is publically traded and I dont think that constitutes a private one. Either way its open and accessible to the public and they arent going to violate a persons civil rights or rights granted under the law. The worst case is they will ask you to leave, trespass you, and should you return then you are most likely in for a legal issue. Of course the cops who respond could arrest you on other charges which may amount to a fishing expedition but they probably arent likely to hold up in court. Futhermore I never claimed that you would be going into areas they didnt wish you to go. I dont believe anybody else in this thread said that either.
     
  17. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Yea, I agree - terrible argument for a situation like that.
     
  18. markw76

    markw76 Portland/Moscow on the Willamette Member

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    Discretion is paramount. You may open carry with no problems in Lane County where the practice is well known and the subject has been a training topic with police, but you do it in Portland, even Gresham, and the police learning curve is going to be very unpleasant, and not for them. If there is a complaint from someone, chances are good the report will be handled with dispatch and the quality of the experience will be a tossup depending on the experience of the officers (note the plural) making contact. Also note in this area such reports are usually involving brandishers, gun-wavers, or very serious-looking characters stumping down the streets with a rifle or shotgun apparently intent on something. In town that is a bad sign. Reports from citizens of someone with a handgun in a holster not otherwise doing anything are usually met with a bit less concern. There are many plainclothes officers and agents, investigators, and many CCW holders, none of whom are any of the police's concern unless they're in peril. In such cases the weapon is usually out attracting attention anyway.
     
  19. stitchclimber

    stitchclimber St. Louis Active Member

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    could I get some clarification here?

    So here is what I understand:
    Open carry is legal in the state of Oregon.
    Loaded weapon carrying is banned in Portland and some burbs.
    Once you have your CWP you are now free from the loaded weapons ban.
    Does this mean that with your CWP you can open carry in Portland?

    The reason I'm asking is for clarification.

    I had the Portland Police called on me the other day when I went to get something out of my car in my condo parking lot, and in the hurry my sidearm was showing. The police made it clear that a concealed weapons permit was good only for concealed carry, but I've heard so many contradicting reports I was wondering if someone had a link to actual Oregon info on this.
     
  20. Oohrah

    Oohrah NorthwestSouthern Oregon Coast Member

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    A concealed carry allows you to carry in all but a few places and where
    posted. Here, it is added to the instructions when you apply. City
    ordinance are tricky. For example the Portland mayor banned firearms
    from some kind of a public event. Hell was raised, but I don't know if
    she got her way or not. Unfortunately, unless it goes through the court
    system, the police may or may not abuse there police power knowingly,
    or misinterpitation of the law. Years ago, I can recall the need to carry
    a short barrel shotgun in a military scabard strapped to one leg of my
    Harley's front fork. This occurred in Kalifornia. I know LEOs had to have
    seen it, but decided they probably did not see it and was never stopped,
    or questioned.