Carry Gun Evolution

[Kruel J]

I think if you went to something like a polo shirt in a tall, you'd be ok.

Not really my style, or body type. I've thought about a 19 though lately....I'd like some more rounds available.

 

[Koda]

There is always something that can make anything work but I wouldn't want to be married to shirt or dress style. A full size like that is doable in certain situations but not doable for me all the time, especially in summer.

 

[No_Regerts]

There is always something that can make anything work but I wouldn't want to be married to shirt or dress style. A full size like that is doable in certain situations but not doable for me all the time, especially in summer.

My hatred of little guns knows no bounds.

 

[Kruel J]

My hatred of little guns knows no bounds.

With my diet and weight loss, my belly is to a point that its almost non existent. Good for health, bad for CC.

 

[L84Cabo]

We've all heard that most gunfights are within a few yards. It was gospel. Reactive shooting training without too much actual use of sights, orienting to threats up close. Just about any reliable handgun was fine. Revolver, 1911, maybe a Hi-Power. Most of these were lower capacity, but usually had good triggers and were accurate.

Then came training for multiple attackers. Drills like El Presidente and flicks like Collateral reinforced the new normal of multiple bad guys. We started seeing fewer revolvers and 1911s and more double stacks in lighter, easier to shoot calibers. Safeties were replaced by decocking levers and some DAOs.

This era has been going a long while, even having its own evolution of people straying away from metal frame DA/SA pistols to polymer framed/striker-fired guns that were lighter and had just one type of trigger pull. I feel these guns are easier to shoot fast with lower bore axis and easy to operate and maintain. I can't help but think that the mindset that engagements happen up close made people ok with sacrificing raw accuracy for high capacity and speed. Even competitions shifted and you started to see more guns like Glock 34s at the matches.

With random high-casualty shootings becoming more of a thing, I've thought about what I'd do, especially off-duty, if I were in the middle of an active shooter event. Places like department stores and public events are usually open areas where you may see the threat from further out. The bad guy will likely have a rifle and will have an advantage as far as distance.

So, with that in mind, should we start to think about carrying guns that are more capable of taking a 25 to maybe even a 50 yard shot? Does that mean going back to guns that are more capable of raw accuracy? Does that mean red dot optics On carry guns? All of the above?

They're flying freaking jet liners into buildings. And blowing up marathons. And shooting up night clubs, and theaters, and schools, and Christmas work parties, and churches, and malls. They're driving vans through crowds of people. And they're executing white men on the streets of Fresno because they're white and because religion of peace. And that's just off the top of my head.

Should we start to think about carry guns that are more capable? Absolutely!

My daily carry is 4.25" M&P Core in 9mm with a 17 rounder in the magwell and another 17 rounder on the belt. YMMV.

 

[No_Regerts]

With my diet and weight loss, my belly is to a point that its almost non existent. Good for health, bad for CC.

Just lay off the shmedium shirts.

 

[USMC-03]

A lot of good comments and more to unpack here than I have time for. Just a couple of thoughts to add...

Competing in long range rifle matches was a significant factor in improving my marksmanship and standard distances. Not so much from homing my fundamentals as much as removing a mental barrier; if I can hit a target at 1,000 yards, I can dang sure make hits at 300, 400 and 500 yards. So, train with a handgun at 75 to 100 yards to build confidence for 25 to 50 yards.

It's far better to react with well practiced bad habits than to not react at all. Train as much as possible with any reasonable drills and artificial stress.

 

[Alexx1401]

I think if you went to something like a polo shirt in a tall, you'd be ok.

New a guy who was old when I met him, at least seemed to me then to be "old" , he had a couple S&W 27's. He was VERY good with them and he never left home without one. I admired his dedication to it but he was rare. Smart, but rare.

 

[Alexx1401]

I was being hyperbolic about the SBR. I won't always carry a full-sized(1911), and not many people have the dedication to do that like you said. Though I don't feel like I need a 1911 to handle the scenario OP asked about. At a minimum, I carry a P229 and dress around it, even in the summer. Most of the time it is a 3rd gen smith in a caliber, and model number, starting with 10. I wouldn't carry a sub-compact with garbage sights and minute of barn accuracy.

Can I hit a man-sized target at 25yards regularly? Yes. With a little stress(timer)? Dunno, this thread is making me think I need to run drills like that.

When I said up gun, I meant over that of a pocket gun for 7 yard engagements like the OP mentioned.

Sadly many, and I mean MANY, who carry, far too often have nothing. Have known many over the years who would not even own any of the "mouse guns" I have. That's fine except that I would often see them carry no gun at all then. I would sure as hell not want to get into a fight with the little LCPII but, if I was ever caught at some store where some kook comes in blazing away and I could get to cover? Having that little pistol would feel a hell of a lot better than nothing. I will often when dressing "down" for carry have a sub compact 9mm that holds 11. Still not "ideal" but, it replaced the 5 shot .38's I used to use for those times. It's the same size and weight and I can shoot it at least as well as I ever could those little 5 shooters. So feels a lot better than those did. I tell people all the time I do know full well the GM1911 has LONG ago been surpassed by many better designs. I still just love the damn things though. I know I should carry something more modern, I just can't get over the love I have for the damn guns

 

[RicInOR]

In my experience with the RDS, its exactly the opposite. They are a tad slower to shot #1 unless your draw is perfect, but they allow you to hit targets pretty far out there. Ive shot at 8 inch steel plates at 50 yards and its all but guaranteed you'll hit.

I can testify that an 18x24 plate at 7 yrds can be missed when using a Red Dot, Iron Sight, Lazer, point shooting, etc.

 

[No_Regerts]

I can testify that an 18x24 plate at 7 yrds can be missed when using a Red Dot, Iron Sight, Lazer, point shooting, etc.

 

[Kruel J]

I can testify that an 18x24 plate at 7 yrds can be missed when using a Red Dot, Iron Sight, Lazer, point shooting, etc.

 

[KKG]

Any Civilian who starts Shooting at someone who is 25 yards away - 10 yards is pushing the boundaries - is Seriously asking for Jail time. IMHO

Find cover, call the Police and Retreat even further. You might try recording and scene for the Courts.

 

[No_Regerts]

Any Civilian who starts Shooting at someone who is 25 yards away - 10 yards is pushing the boundaries - is Seriously asking for Jail time. IMHO

Find cover, call the Police and Retreat even further. You might try recording and scene for the Courts.

Not sure that distance matters if dude is shooting up the place.

 

[Koda]

Any Civilian who starts Shooting at someone who is 25 yards away - 10 yards is pushing the boundaries - is Seriously asking for Jail time. IMHO

Find cover, call the Police and Retreat even further. You might try recording and scene for the Courts.

Well we are talking about a mass shooter here. Would you wait for him to get closer to you while hes shooting at you?

 

[KKG]

If you go back to the OP there is nothing said about a mass shooting! That's a massive threat drift to say the least. Take it somewhere else. In that case, go find a Bigger Gun and Help.

I'm done here.

 

[Kruel J]

Just lay off the shmedium shirts.

XL dude. XL. And it's still quite the gun show.

 

[Koda]

I hear 511 is coming out with some tactical hipster skinny jeans for CCW, should go well with full size autos.

 

[Kruel J]

I hear 511 is coming out with some tactical hipster skinny jeans for CCW, should go well with full size autos.

Do they offer a package deal with beards and body armor included?

 

[Flymph]

I hear 511 is coming out with some tactical hipster skinny jeans for CCW, should go well with full size autos.

Don't tell my girlfriend