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Car trade in question

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by kibs45, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. kibs45

    kibs45 Portland Active Member

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    This place never ceases to amaze me with what everyone knows, and I need some wisdom.

    We have a two year old car that has 28,000 miles on it. We bought it new, cash price was $34k. We have liked the car, but it developed an intermittent miss at idle about 12-15 months ago. Nothing major, but definitely noticeable and not correct. When we took it in for other work we brought it up and they said not to worry, it would probably clear up. Fast forward a little bit to later last year, and I take it in specifically for that issue, because it's getting worse. It had about 24k miles at that time. They say they can't replicate the problem, but they did a ECM reflash for an update.

    it did not get better. I called the manufacturer, and they said try another dealer. So I did. I left it with them while I was out of town. They also say they can't replicate the problem, but to switch gas stations and run some fuel system cleaner through. I did try another station, and I used the potent bottle of Chevron Techron, and a bottle of Redline through on different oil changes.

    As an extra bit of info, I have plugged into the OBDII port with my own scantool, and have seen where the ECM is logging misfires (very few, but they're there) but not enough to trigger a code.

    Well the last straw was that the vehicle has started having intermittent hesitation issues on the road. I now have another appointment with the original dealer Thursday for another exploration, but I'm not hopeful.

    All that said, I would really just like the car we have to work. I suspect an injector, but nobody seems interested in figuring it out the old fashioned way. Here's the thing, and this is what I am struggling with: the dealer has proposed we trade the car in. They said they would work with me, but I'm not sure if that's code for work me over, or they're genuinely trying to help/avoid lemon law compilations? Any thoughts? We are close to paying this one off, and I have no interest in starting the process over again "just because". But I'm also starting to doubt the reliability of this particular car unless they can actually fix it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
  2. kibs45

    kibs45 Portland Active Member

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    For what it's worth kbb lists trade in as about $19-20k, private part/dealer $23-25k. A full fledged lemon law calculation seems to come in around $29k. I haven't talked numbers with them yet, so it's possible they're just trying to move another car. No matter what it's frustrating.
     
  3. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    What make and model?
     
  4. kibs45

    kibs45 Portland Active Member

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    2015 Kia Sorento. LX V6 AWD.
     
  5. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    im a GM tech.i work at a local dealership. Although,i am not familiar with kia engines i do have a question... what all have the dealerships done to try to diagnose this? are they putting the vehicle in the exact situation you have it in when this happens? maybe go for a road test with the tech to get on the same page.

    ANYWAY heres my thoughts...is this engine direct injection? if it is then it could be carbon on the valves. see in an indirect injection gas engine there is fuel that sprays the back of the valves which washes off carbon. direct injection engines do not do this as they spray fuel directly into the cyl. i have seen MANY GM Direct injection engines with around 25k miles on this start to rack misfire counts on a cold start at idle. our fix for this is an induction service which introduces a metered amount of cleaner thru a vacuum source, let the engine sit for an hour so that the chemical can do its thing, then, i take the spark plugs out and crank the engine incase there is excessive liquid in the cylinder(avoiding hydrolock). this USUALLY fixes this issue. sometimes I will do it twice. if it doesnt fix it and all of my other diagnosis leads to excessive carbon on the valves then,at that point then the cyl head will need removed. my advice... read up on 'lemon-law' and force a dealer to fix this issue.
     
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  6. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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  7. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    if it is still under warranty I would just keep bringing it back to the dealer and ask that they make it right.

    Sounds like they are playing you to try and get the trade.

    Another alternative is to find a shop that the manufacturer recommends for warranty work.

    I had a bad Honda back in 08. I would purposely travel 3 hours to the dealership who "took care of things". Sucks that new cars can be like that, and dealers can be so shady.
     
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  8. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    They are a business to make money and anything they suggest will most likely not be in your monetary favor.

    Maybe not all dealer are but that's been my experience with them - pass the buck till the warranties gone and then charge you for what should have been fixed under warranty.

    I guess I am just advising caution and to go in expected to leave unsatisfied.




    My moms transmission has had a hiccup since it was a year old. Hiccup getting worse but dealer "can't replicate the issue" and it's about out of warranty now...
     
  9. notazombie

    notazombie Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    While diagnosing cars over the internet isn't ideal, I'd tend to agree with Volcom on this one. I wonder if Kia has any TSBs regarding a PCV filter to help alleviate some of the carbon buildup. Direct injection is great for power and emissions but unfortunately this can be a side effect. If they can clear the problem up, it wouldn't hurt to tighten up your oil change intervals. That was actually part of the flash update strategy by some manufacturers according to one of the tech training guys I spoke to. They didn't actually change any tuning, just reset the oil change reminder interval from 7500 miles to 4500 miles (or something like that).
     
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  10. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    The Serento why a great vehicle and well built have all been plagued with electrical issues going back to 2007. They also all V6 have had unrecalled intake manifold leaks.
    Kia which is a Hyundai just different cars is aware of the many electrical .

    Try http://www.kia-forums.com/forumindex.php
    The is an unofficial website for all Kia brands and you can find out if others are havingthe same issue, They also had bad coils in some models which would explain the firing issues. The forum may not solve your issue but you might get some ideas if others are having the same issue. I solved two issues the diode issue and the airbag from the site not the dealer. Eventually the air bag made recall way later as well as brake light switch so it helped us.

    By the way own a 2008 Kia Serento 4x4, great strong powewrful this model even has a
    full frame on ours so they are build well but all seem to have chronic over time electrical issues some annoying some critical like airbag failures, back brake light switches, interior light failure due to a $5.00 diode. I could go on but the link is a great place to get some info and do some research. If you can't get any satisfaction start with a BBB complaint to the local Kia dealer be surprised how that can help spark them to take a look more closely. Chances all they know the issue and being its not a recall they want you to wait until you get a failure.
    ( sorry typos first cup coffee )
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
    kibs45 and Wayne like this.
  11. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    yep, GM had a service update recall for any vehicle using dexos or mobil1 oil to change the service interval...mainly for stretched toming chains. worst thing the manufacturer could have done was put an oil life monitor in their cars. its an algorithm based off crankshaft revolutions and not actual mileage. whatever happened to vehicle owners checking their oil?!??
     
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  12. kibs45

    kibs45 Portland Active Member

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    Yes it is GDI. I generally don't run the oil changes pat about 3000-3500 miles. I have been fearful of carbon deposits on the valves because it was a known issue to early adopters of the GDI systems. And the most closely related forum posts to my issue seem to be resolved by injector(s). However mine is on multiple cylinders.

    The dealers had the vehicles multiple days because it was generally more prevalent first thing in the morning. So they would try, and then wait and so on. The hesitation is a new wrinkle, which I believe to be related as the first problem hasn't gone away.

    Anyway the dealers performed a TSB related to fuel trim, watched the computer, and performed fuel system pressure tests. I am unsure about what else. I am surprised they haven't tried to chemically clean the valves or do a more thorough injector cleaning.

    My guess is tonight/tomorrow will be a stalemate. The more I think about it, the more I suspect it's a bum car somehow...
     
  13. twa2471

    twa2471 Vermont Active Member

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    My advice ,,,Just keep bringing it back every single time something goes South and keep doing so till it's fixed or replaced. You bet they'll try to give you a run around, dealerships do that . I should know,, I worked in one for many years and that was the SOP used to "solve" a problem,,,"we can't duplicate the issue" ,,, is a standard response from dealerships when they go outside the time allotted for a warren-tee repair. It happens all the time,, and if they won't honor the warentee,, park it in there lot till they do and refuse to take it back till it's fixed. Also contact Kia directly with a formal complaint and threats of submitting it to what ever agency in your state handles this type lemon law issue. That's the only way you'll get satisfaction with many dealerships. Not all are shady,, but 80% of the ones I've worked at operated in this way. I've seen it first hand.

    They got your bucks already and could give 2 bubblegums less if the car is working right or not,believe me. I've seen it a million times and have seen service managers deliver cars back with reoccurring problems without even looking at them. They'll tie them up all day long and not even touch them. I've seen it happen a million times,,,,,they figure if you bring it back enough times you'll just get sick of doing it and you'll end up trading it off. Make them honor the warentee,,and don't take it back till fixed period.

    This is the main reason I stopped working at dealerships many many years ago, most are shady IMHO.

    We had a lady a few years back that kept bring a car back she'd bought in several times for the same repair that the dealership wouldn't address after several trips. She only owned the car 6 months and it had been hauled back in by a wrecker on 4-5 different occasions for the same issue.

    One night she just parked it sideways across the main door at night and locked it up tighter than a drum and left it there chained to 2 trees on both sides of the door by the bumpers with Lemon written all over the car.
    The local papers got a hold of it and it even hit the local TV news broadcast with reporters,in a big fancy broadcasting truck and everything covering the story,,,she had a new car within the week! I suspect she'd called the papers and local station, but not sure?? But I'd be willing to bet she did ,,I know the lady very well and she's a Hard bubblegum so I wouldn't put it past her for one second !!!!!! She got her justice though, that dealership was closed down with-in a year.

    I quit there the following week myself,,,,,and never worked in a another dealership afterwards.
     
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  14. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    OP, I am not sure which Kia dealer you went to but it is was Keifer Kia , I would do as other advised be aggressive. Kiefer is in my opinion one of the bad ones out there.
    We had a heck of time with our new Serento in 2008 they gave the typical B.S.
    The managers there especially do not listen. I think they hear bla bla bla money bla bla bla customers fault bla bla. I like our SUV, but wont buy from and thing with Kiefer on on.
    But thats just my opinion and experience.
     
  15. AMT

    AMT Vancouver, WA. Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    After taking it in quite a few times, to various dealers, contact the area Kia rep. Call Kia and find out who the West coast rep is and start dealing directly with them.

    Had an "awe crap" with my new F350. Same situation as you. "Can't replicate the problem". contacted Ford and basically demanded some help - to the point of requesting a new replacement vehicle. I was put in contact with the West Coast Rep.

    After explaining everything, and emailing him scanned copies of all problems he "looked into the problem." 2 days later I got a phone call from the area Ford dealer stating to bring my truck in right away and they will find out what is going on.

    Lo and behold, they found the problem and fixed it immediately.

    Long post, short, don't hesitate to call Kia's "mother ship" and start to complain. Don't they have a 10 year, 100K mile warranty anyway?
     
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  16. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    my bet is carbon based on how many i have fixed
     
  17. kibs45

    kibs45 Portland Active Member

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    Well the first update:

    The dealer offer to trade wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen, but wasn't appropriate in my opinion. They found the closest equivelant car in the area and offered me basically KBB trade in of $19k. They then knocked the price on the equivalent car down by $3-4K to make it as if this car never happened. Not bad, not great. But I won't double what I owe on the vehicle just for another one. We'll see what the shop says tomorrow.

    Anyway, going forward I'll keep them busy. Whenever it acts up, it'll go back in.
     
  18. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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  19. BWH

    BWH Tualatin, Oregon Active Member

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    I was thinking coil pak ground(s) a tad bit of corrision on aluminum attach point for a ground will do this.