Washington Cap & Ball Revolver, BGC (resurection of old issue)

[awshoot]

I have read in numerous places that all pistols, even muzzleloading pistols or cap and ball revolvers require the usual BGC in WA and are not exempt like traditional muzzle loading rifles. My searching even found a few threads here on this site. Many times during my search I saw reference to "page 9 WA State DOL Firearms Dealer Training Manual" but which when I go the DOL site, I get a message that they're updating their manual and nothing is available (no info on when that was posted or when they'll be done): WA State Licensing (DOL) Official Site: Training - Firearms

The RCWs provide this definition of antique firearms: RCW 9.41.010: Terms defined.

(1) "Antique firearm" means a firearm or replica of a firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

The RCW on pistol transfers states: RCW 9.41.090: Dealer deliveries regulated—Hold on delivery—Fees authorized. (Contingent expiration date.)

(1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until:
...
(9) This section does not apply to sales to licensed dealers for resale or to the sale of antique firearms.

The RCW on UBCs states: RCW 9.41.113: Firearm sales or transfers—Background checks—Requirements—Exceptions.

(1) All firearm sales or transfers, in whole or part in this state including without limitation a sale or transfer where either the purchaser or seller or transferee or transferor is in Washington, shall be subject to background checks unless specifically exempted by state or federal law. ....
....
(4) This section does not apply to:
...
(b) The sale or transfer of an antique firearm;

So my question is this: what am I missing???? Why would a replica of a cap and ball revolver or pirate's pistol be subject to a BGC?

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[UnionMillsNW]

@AndyinEverson may know the answer to this question.

Unless something has changed since my experience in 2014 a black powder pistol can be bought over the counter, or mail ordered, in Washington State without a background check.

 

[Red98422]

As you may have surmised, at this point in time it is still perfectly legal to sell and take delivery of any firearm with a "primitive" ignition system (as defined by your outlined RCWs) doesn't even need to be a replica.

 

[awshoot]

As you may have surmised, at this point in time it is still perfectly legal to sell and take delivery of any firearm with a "primitive" ignition system (as defined by your outlined RCWs) doesn't even need to be a replica.

Does that include inline muzzle loaders? I had read those require a BGC.

 

[Alexx1401]

Does that include inline muzzle loaders? I had read those require a BGC.

Look at any website selling them. See if they will let you order one. I just looked at a couple they had no problem mail ordering one here. Only restrictions were New Jersey, Washington D.C. & New York City as well as all pistol orders within New York State
Who is telling you there is a BGC on these in this state?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

At this time in Washington
You do not need a BGC for a muzzleloading firearm , be it :
Original
Replica
Or a Modern Inline
Long arm or handgun

With that said some states do require a FFL so ...
I do not know if you can have a muzzleloader shipped from one of those states , to your door here in Washington without a FFL....
Andy

 

[awshoot]

Look at any website selling them. See if they will let you order one. I just looked at a couple they had no problem mail ordering one here. Only restrictions were New Jersey, Washington D.C. & New York City as well as all pistol orders within New York State
Who is telling you there is a BGC on these in this state?

I noted muzzle-loaders.com showing direct ship and nothing in the shipping policies excepting WA. But I had also read different info online about that and I want to stay on the right side of the law. Anyway, it was all 10+ year old info that kept coming up in my searches. Glad I asked rather than just accept outdated info -- thank you all for the update and real world purchasing experiences.

 

[Xrperry]

Just being a wise arse but it wouldn't surprise me if Washington state had the same laws for muzzle loaders as for modern handguns. Everyone knows how fast you can reload a soot burner.

 

[revjen45]

Yup, just like Clint Eastwood did.

Do the same carry laws apply to MLs?

 

[Xrperry]

I can reload my front stuffer in about a minute. This puts it in the same classification as a semi automatic rifle Lol

 

[awshoot]

Yup, just like Clint Eastwood did.

Do the same carry laws apply to MLs?

Interesting question. I think that the same concealed carry laws DO apply.

Sarting with definitions: RCW 9.41.010: Terms defined.

Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter.
(1) "Antique firearm" means a firearm or replica of a firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
...
(11) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder. "Firearm" does not include a flare gun or other pyrotechnic visual distress signaling device, or a powder-actuated tool or other device designed solely to be used for construction purposes.
(12) "Gun" has the same meaning as firearm.
...
(22) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

The license application rules say nothing about antique firearms. RCW 9.41.070: Concealed pistol license—Application—Fee—Renewal. Nor does the law forbidding concealed carry without a license reference antique firearms, it simply forbids pistols in general: RCW 9.41.050: Carrying firearms.

I would say that an antique pistol meets all three of those definition -- pistol, firearm/gun, and antique firearm. Because it is a pistol, and because the concealed carry laws make no exceptions for antiques, concealed carry of an antique pistol without a license is still a crime.

Interestingly, and I'd have to look more, but it appears to be legal to conceal a rifle or shotgun on your person so long as you stay out of vehicles. Reference the statutes above and RCW 77.15.460: Loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle—Unlawful use or possession—Unlawful use of a loaded firearm—Penalty. -- NOTE: this is a maybe, I would be surprised if the legislature missed that issue. Also note the title of the statute is "concealed firearms" -- it is only the body that fails to mention firearms. Anyway, a "don't try this at home" thing, but interesting.

 

[Alexx1401]

Just being a wise arse but it wouldn't surprise me if Washington state had the same laws for muzzle loaders as for modern handguns. Everyone knows how fast you can reload a soot burner.

Well that part, the state and local laws, is OFTEN VERY misunderstood. I can't tell how many times I have heard someone say they thought there was no laws covering these. Just because you can buy one mail order does NOT mean there are no laws on carrying one. Most, if not all, states do not define "firearm" the way GCA68 does. In many states and localities even air guns meet the definition. So no, you can't legally just carry a BP firearm in any way you are not allowed to carry any other firearm. I was shocked decades ago when I found out the city I lived in made it illegal for my kids to shoot air guns in the backyard. I had no idea this had happened. Only learned when I read about a guy who got a visit from local Police over this. If one of my neighbors had called about my kids back there the Police would have showed up at my door.

 

[UnionMillsNW]

Yes, local and State governments can treat black powder firearms the same as modern firearms.

Take for instance this California gang member that was picked up with an 1858 Army Revolver

Flood Of Comments Dunk On Central California Gang Member's Civil War-Style Revolver

A Facebook post on an admitted gang member's arrest has gone viral thanks to his apparent taste for rustic guns.

sacramento.cbslocal.com

Edit: however black powder still does not require a background check