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cap and bal l revolver???? what is this

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by sandmankrohn, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. sandmankrohn

    sandmankrohn Depoe Bay Oregon New Member

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    I ended up with this and have no idea what ti is but look very old other than somebody
    "tried" cleaning it...brasstrigger guard has m stamp, barrel has h stamp.you can see what looks like threads by the cylinder. help me figure out what it is then it will go up for sale
     
  2. Ampster

    Ampster Looking across to Whidbey Member

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    From the pictures, it looks like it could be an 1858 Remington "New Army" cap and ball revolver in 44 cal. Without further inspection, I can't tell if it's real or a reproduction.
     
  3. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    yes, it does look like a '58 rem, seen quite a few of these phonied up, look yery carefully at the "flats" on the barrel, if one appears wider (usually on the bottom) thats where the import marks/manufactuers name were draw filed off. If you can find a serial number that would be a great help. there are some other spots to look, but it's too hard to explain.

    On the other hand, the holster looks very interesting, does it have any markings?
     
  4. sandmankrohn

    sandmankrohn Depoe Bay Oregon New Member

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    duh(on my part) says" patented sept 14 1858, remington & sons ilion newyork u.s.a., new-model
    ' on top flat of barrel. has brass cone style front sight. barrel sides seem uniform if they aren't would thke actuall measureing to tell.... no serial # any where.. checked with magnifier

    as fas as holster has way old scool rivits, copper maybe, looks like a brass ball that the cover strap used to strap to.. stitching on barrel area is verry worn and coming apart

    thank so much for all input.... i think my buddy my have gotten ripped
     
  5. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    Check the screw threads, if metric it's an Italian repro that's been defarbed.
     
  6. sandmankrohn

    sandmankrohn Depoe Bay Oregon New Member

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    ?????there is 5 screws in it. thr are all flat tip
     
  7. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    From the picture it is a good job IF phonied but you need to seek expert inspection. There are also a lot of non-firing fakes that used to come out of the Middle East and look real at a quick glance although those were mostly based on earlier, single shot designs. A friend of mine has several he bought in Saudi Arabia many years ago. An episode of Pawn Stars had a guy who paid way too much for one and left very pissed after he found out.
     
  8. PaulZ

    PaulZ Oregon City Active Member

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  9. sandmankrohn

    sandmankrohn Depoe Bay Oregon New Member

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    stopped by my local shop it real!! holster is real!! yeah!!!! 1860ish
     
  10. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    People have gotten very, very good at aging these. The wood grips look way to new to me.
    The one in the pic's looks like it has been recently steel wooled.

    This is the typical patina found on a old C&B.

    dragoonsight03.jpg

    Old grips shrink and crack. Exceptions would be revolvers stored under ideal conditions.

    patersom03.jpg




    The above is new production that I aged, including damaged screw heads and gouged up wood and metal.

    Check the thread pitch of the screws. Metric=Italian, uss=original or a very good defarb.

    dragoonsight03.jpg

    patersom03.jpg
     
  11. PaulZ

    PaulZ Oregon City Active Member

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    Wow< if I see a Patterson for sale I will look it over pretty good!:huh:
    Wondering, why did you do that? What does "farb" mean? I have heard that word
    in regards to Civil War reencatments.
     
  12. sandmankrohn

    sandmankrohn Depoe Bay Oregon New Member

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    well I am no expert but the guy that bought it likes to collect old weapons.he checked it thorowly... didn't bat an eye at 800 for it:thumbup:
     
  13. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yes it was a real Remington. And I have never seen a faked one. I have seen reproductions which you can buy from

    Lyman
    CVA
    Navy Arms
    Uberti
    pedrosili [sic]
    Cimmaron
    and maybe 4-5 others brand.

    Almost all of them are made in Italy. And they are sold by quality lots. the best fit and finish going to the companies that charge the most. I've had 3-4 of the Reproductions in fact the first firearm I ever bought was a Lyman 1858 New Model Army repro. Beautiful piece shot like a 4 year old throwing a dirt cold. Replaced it with a Navy Arms Kit version and put some target sights on it it will shoot a 4" group at 25 yards.
     
  14. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    "defarb" is an Americanization of a French term. Many civil war reenactors well have their weapons defarbed. It's the removal of all markings from the reproduction manufacturer and then you re-stamp original markings. There are several smiths that specialize in this and the guns are clearly marked as defarbs, normally under the wood.

    Some well defarb and attempt to pass the gun off as original. They have gotten very good at it as the price on old guns has gone up and up. Many very well versed collectors have been fooled by these dishonest azzhats.

    Defarbed Uberti Paterson Colt.

    paterson13.jpg
    paterson08.jpg

    The barrel marking is done incorrectly so it's obviously a fake. Even with this it's fooled several knowledgeable people.

    paterson15.jpg



    The photos from the OP show grip screw bushing from a modern reproduction, possible replaced at one time.. The loading lever profile looks to be reproduction, again possible replaced.

    Old Remington
    oldrem01.jpg
    oldrem02.jpg

    paterson13.jpg

    paterson08.jpg

    paterson15.jpg

    oldrem01.jpg

    oldrem02.jpg
     
  15. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Why on earth would a civi war reinactor make their pistol look old and patinaed like that? After all during the civil war these firearms were NEW or nearly new. I could never figure this out. When I started Knifemaking I sold a lot of knives at Blackpowder Rendevous and guys were always asking me to acid etch or otherwise try to make a knife look OLD. When in fact the Knifes being carried at the time they wanted to emulate were new shinny and very well made.
     
  16. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    Most the civil war guys do the original markings and a new appearance. The Rendezvous guys like the old look.

    I aged the Patterson just to do it. I've got some C&B revolvers that have been used for fifty years and they look as old as ones a hundred and fifty yeas old. Personally I prefer a original new look like this second gen Colt Walker.

    Mywalker01.jpg

    compared to a original Walker from 1840's

    pix262955625.jpg

    Mywalker01.jpg

    pix262955625.jpg