Cannibas & Guns

[freestoneangler]

Just reading the article in Times magazine "Pot's Money Problem" which is a prelude of things to come I fear... and all the more reason having the right to bear arms and protect oneself and family is as important as ever. The new, legal, over the counter m-jane businesses are already starting to become targets of crime and ramping up the already rampant drug problems in this country. Owners having to stash cash in false walls of their homes, moving and transporting piles of cash around to make transactions not only for the product but for the business capital needs; growing rooms, equipment, etc. Apparently, many banks will not support their businesses...some owners are simply leasing security vaults and moving cash in/out that way.

I'm thinking the proverbial genie has been let out of the bottle and we're about to see the start of "Pot War's" here in the US that could very likely grow into more drug-cartel like scenarios we hear about in Mexico. Sure, this has been going on with gang's largely being the principals where illegal...but now, some non-gang types are taking that business away. For those who are not party to this activity in anyway, the streets could become even meaner than they are... all the more reason the ability to protect ourselves is more, not less important.

Of course the anti-gun proponents will use this as a reason to take away guns... in a way, it serves their purpose (for some in more ways than one )

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[RVTECH]

I agree completely. The long espoused notion legalizing would eliminate the illegal growing of pot is a myth. You think the illegal growers are suddenly going to clear their fields and walk away? I too think the problems are just beginning with many that were never considered before. One possibility is the lack of supply available to the shops that sell in the legal states. I heard in the news recently the shops in Colorado are virtually sold out with no ready resupply. So the illegal growers may have a new customer. It is the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

 

[evltwn]

Gun related?

 

[Redcap]

The legalization in WA has been excellent for the underground growers. Most are going to ramp up production.

But "pot wars"? Please. Maybe in states with crappy climates, but n this area of the world it is too easy to simply grow your own high-quality green.

 

[PiratePast40]

Criminals will be criminals, regardless of the product or reason. However, there is a legitimate concern with regards to Marion and Polk county sheriff departments. Take it for what you will, I'll offer no documented cases nor will I supply names, but deputies in both counties have refused to investigate armed robberies and substantial thefts from licensed medical marijuana growers in the last 12 months.

For those of you who feel that a licensed grower should be deprived of his or her 2A rights, consider why you are objecting. Would you say the same about a licensed bar owner, liquor store owner, or licensed pharmacist?

 

[RVTECH]

but deputies in both counties have refused to investigate armed robberies and substantial thefts from licensed medical marijuana growers in the last 12 months.

Any specific reason as to why they REFUSED to investigate?

 

[Squidly]

Any specific reason as to why they REFUSED to investigate?

I speculate (to state the obvious) selective law enforcement based on pre-existing bias. So much for "will of the people."

 

[SunTzu]

come on, legalizing pot will increase illegal activity? i think not. just like ending the Prohibition on alcohol increased organized crime's trade in illegal booze..... oh wait that's right, legal alcohol sales ended the mafia's reign over the substance. i suppose there's still those hillbillies on "Moonshiners" but something tells me Qwik -Marts and liquor stores do most of the alcohol sales in the US.

In summary, the alcohol war ended shortly after the prohibition ended.

 

[8ball]

I heard in the news recently the shops in Colorado are virtually sold out with no ready resupply. So the illegal growers may have a new customer.

Xboxes sold out before the holidays too, and that didn't result in gun battles as far as I know. The fact that legal pot in CO is selling out is good because it means that underground growers are not selling it. All of those legal consumers didn't start smoking pot in January. It represents illegal drug buys coming out into the sunlight.

The CO and WA laws were designed to make it very hard to buy from underground growers and sell in the legal system. Every ounce is tracked from farm to consumer, and no single entity is allowed to own multiple phases of production. You are more likely to see bootleg alcohol in your local liquor store than illegal pot in the state system, given the amount of attention.

Regardless of any teething troubles, legalizing pot and winding back the War On Some Drugs is a great idea, and every freedom loving American should get behind it. If you are concerned about civil liberties and the erosion of our rights under the police state, then surely you agree? Or do you think cops should continue busting down doors and locking people up for a weed that God gave us?

 

[8ball]

The legalization in WA has been excellent for the underground growers. Most are going to ramp up production.

Source?

 

[DMax]

Does anyone think that when the NSA sees on a Visa Transaction ammo, gun and pot your presence as an NSA target will not become elevated? Its already happened by credit card companies. These issues with some of the country legal and some illegal Feds ignoring and states prosecuting. Can anyone say there goes your gun rights because of the legal ciaos. Na none of that will happen lets all go back to signing up for obammycare. Carry On

 

[rufus]

I'll go on record as saying I don't care one way or the other about weed. Don't use it, but won't say I never did. To me it's a non-issue.

That being said, heaven forbid you ever use a gun in self-defense or cause someone harm due to an accident. God help you if your toxicology screening comes back positive. Same thing as being legally over the limit and causing a car accident, only less politically correct. In other words it would be open season for the DA.

 

[The Heretic]

The problem is that even though the feds have been told to ignore the industry (or at least make it a very low priority), it is still against federal law. Banks (including credit card payment processors), credit unions and other financial institutions are essentially federally regulated institutions and they have to answer to the IRS and other federal institutions about where their deposits come from.

So the "war on drugs" is still on and marijuana is still essentially illegal.

Until it is fully legal, in the same way tobacco or alcohol is right now (at least), then comments about the crime and legalization as a consequence of the current situation are not truly relevant.

To give some perspective to this, 30+ years ago, I was a federal LEO, and part of my responsibilities was to actively interdict illicit drugs importation along our coastal areas. This interfered with my other duties and I considered it a farce (half the people I worked with used marijuana off duty, and some used it on duty).

I am a libertarian. As such, my philosophy is that what a mentally competent adult does, owns, possesses, ingests, is their own business as long as that act does not directly harm another person. If an adult wants to use drugs (aspirin, alcohol, marijuana, tobacco, heroin, whatever), then that is their right - to be stupid.

With regards to actions while under the influence of drugs, I do not see a difference between someone driving drunk or driving under the influence of marijuana, and in many locales neither does the law - both actions are illegal and both endanger others. I don't condone those actions, but I also do not believe the law should prohibit someone sitting at home smoking marijuana or drinking alcohol.

The difference is that the law (federal) prohibits possession/selling of marijuana and not alcohol. It also prohibits possession or making of select-fire firearms or suppressors without a tax stamp.

 

[Redcap]

Source?

Let me just go copy the article from Underground Ganja Growers Monthly. Derp.

 

[The Heretic]

BTW - some marijuana growers are developing (through selective breeding) a form of marijuana that helps those who need it for medical purposes, but does not have the psychoactive ingredients mainstream marijuana has.

Google "medical marijuana without thc"

I am in constant pain due to a spinal trauma when I was a teenager. It is getting worse every year. Most of the time I can cope just using OTC painkillers. Maybe once a year I need to use a prescription painkiller. The last time I was pain free was after an outpatient hospital visit where they gave me an IV of morphine for a kidney stone (on a rating of zero to ten, the pain was a 7 - the worst pain I ever had).

I do not use recreational or illicit drugs (I don't use marijuana at all).

So I don't have a dog in this race except for the fact that the so called "war on drugs" is a war on our rights, on multiple fronts. The more free others are, the more free I and my family are.

 

[8ball]

Let me just go copy the article from Underground Ganja Growers Monthly. Derp.

If you are going to state something as a fact, expect to be called on it. Derp.

 

[8ball]

The problem is that even though the feds have been told to ignore the industry (or at least make it a very low priority), it is still against federal law. Banks (including credit card payment processors), credit unions and other financial institutions are essentially federally regulated institutions and they have to answer to the IRS and other federal institutions about where their deposits come from.

The FINCEN and federal issues with the banks in CO and WA will likely be resolved by the end of this year. You think the Feds don't want their piece of the tax revenue?

Banking fix for marijuana businesses soon may be in the works

Deputy Attorney General James Cole said at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that the existing situation of marijuana shops operating on a cash-only basis created too many dangers, such as possible robberies or fraud.

The Justice Department is reviewing the issue with the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), which targets money-laundering, Cole said.

"It's important to deal with that kind of issue, and we're at the present time talking with FinCEN, and they're talking with and bringing in bank regulators to discuss ways that this could be dealt with in accordance with the laws that we have on the books today," he said.

 

[The Heretic]

Sure the feds want any revenue they can get - I am saying the banks very much toe the line when it comes to proceeds from what is still against federal law.

 

[clambo]

Im thinking there or far worse things than catching a buzz no matter what your reason for using is. I think its a much better route to go than narcotics for chronic pain suffers, if it works for you, and if you can deal with the legal issues and negative stigma. Its a lot better than the horrors of addiction to prescription painkillers that anyone who has ever used them will tell you is inevitable. What a man does so long as no one else is hurt is no one elses business. I dont think it mixes well with guns or driving but neither does alcohol and most people arent that stupid. Darwinism would work if we would just get out of the way for once. Although it would be working overtime for awhile, playing catch up.

 

[The Heretic]

Im thinking there or far worse things than catching a buzz no matter what your reason for using is. I think its a much better route to go than narcotics for chronic pain suffers, if it works for you, and if you can deal with the legal issues and negative stigma. Its a lot better than the horrors of addiction to prescription painkillers that anyone who has ever used them will tell you is inevitable. What a man does so long as no one else is hurt is no one elses business. I dont think it mixes well with guns or driving but neither does alcohol and most people arent that stupid. Darwinism would work if we would just get out of the way for once. Although it would be working overtime for awhile, playing catch up.

Agreed. I have seen what painkillers (like Vicodin/et. al.) do to people who abuse them - it isn't pretty.