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Can someone help me identify a heavy octogon percusion muzzle loader?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by IronMonster, Nov 29, 2014.

  1. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    This rifle came to be through family, It is not what they claimed it was but its still a neat old rifle.

    Anyone have any ideas as to what it is?

    Have any idea what the rear sight looked like?


    muzzle.jpg muzzle1.jpg muzzle2.jpg muzzle3.jpg muzzle4.jpg
     
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  2. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Nice old rifle. Any barrel markings or lock marks?
     
  3. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Not that are visible. I'm going to attempt to remove the barrel and see if anything is on the underside
     
  4. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I found some rifles that look very similar made by a guy named Auer.
     
  5. belcher

    belcher vancouver wa Active Member

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    Very neat, can't be of any help.
    but if you find out what it is please do share.
     
  6. python287

    python287 Neskowin,OR Active Member

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    Send your info with a photo to Guns and Ammo Garry James - he seems pretty good at identifying firearms.
     
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  7. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That's a handsome old rifle, Monster! Too bad about the hammer, does the lock works seem to operate properly?
     
  8. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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  9. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    I think that is is a mid-1840's era Schuetzen-style rifle, probably made in the USA by a German/Austrian or Swiss gunmaker of extreme skill. I say US-made as the little plaque would have Nr for number if it had been made in Europe - German speakers use Nr [Nummer] and not No like English-speakers [Numero from Latin]. The long back-action lock is typical of that time-scale.

    The reduced diameter muzzle is to take a precision loading device - called a false muzzle - for a long cylindrical bullet. Is there a hole under the forend to take a palm/hand rest?

    If you wanted to shoot it, then you might well find a suitable hammer in the Dixie Gun Works catalogue - or even find one that would enable a skilled gunsmith to replicate the missing section of the original.

    Post #4 is a good suggestion - the name has a real resonance.

    And please, when you measure the bore, do it in millimeters - you are the only folks on earth who still use the Imperial system of measurement....funny, eh? Any non-English-made gun will be built metrically.

    Also, remember the American www.muzzleloadingforum.com - there are a HUGE number of genuine experts there, as well as builders and museum staff from all over the world, mostly European in the case of museum staff and even curators of collections to make your teeths itch.

    Sorry I can't be of much help.

    tac
    www.muzzleloadingforum.com
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  10. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It looked Schuetzen...ish to me too, but I've never seen one so old!
    If it is, how cool!!!:)
     
  11. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Would the original tang sight fit into the square hole with a square tang and then what looks like a set screw keep it in place?
    Hard to tell with the pic showing the top.
     
  12. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
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  13. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Correct, the rear sight had a square tang that fit in a square socket and was retained by a thumb screw
     
  14. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Dixie Gun Works has something similar.

    EB0701 Mortimer Creedmore Diopter Tang Sight $182.00
    pixel_trans.gif
    EB0701.JPG

    Mounted into the tang on a ½” hollow post to 5/8”; sight that fits into the hollow post. Elevation adjustment with a screw/leaf vertical adjustment, or by releasing a screw on the side of the base mount to gain additional ½”.
    Height before tang elevation is 1 ½”; after, 2”.
    Windage adjustment with screw/leaf horizontal movement.
    Blued steel with top mounted adjustment screws left “in the white.”
    Standard equipment on Mortimer Whitworth Target Rifle.
     
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  15. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    That might be the ticket
     
  16. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Here's a close up pic.

    L278a.jpg
     
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  17. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Please to remember that the Mortimer is made using Imperial dimensions and this lovely old Schuetzen-style rifle is METRIC. I'd hate for you to drop a couple of hundred dollars on a sight that won't fit.

    Note too that you'll need to have a proper [read, couple of hundred dollars] bullet mould made - this is likely NOT a PRB shooter, as I mentioned before. Checking the ROT will quickly tell us that.

    C'mon, you've got stuff to do! Bore size? ROT?

    I'm waiting to be helpful here, even if it just shy of midnight.

    tac
     
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  18. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Sorry to disappoint but I dont have any means to accurately measure this thing here at the house. All the tools are at the shop. Best I can measure using a tape measure I would have to say it would convert to 16MM? Just a touch over 5/8" It is a monster hole.

    As far as the rate of twist I cant determine that until I get it to the shop.
     
  19. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I just registered on the muzzle loader forum, thanks for the heads up on that.