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Don't really care about that because already doing that anyway.-no federal or state tax or reporting requirements with a trust
-no annual fees
Seems like it would be easier with llc. A stroke of the pen is all that's needed to add a member of the llc.-with a trust it's easy, quick, and inexpensive to change who can use or have access to the firearms/silencer
I don't think that's correct. It's not public. For example you can have an attorney as the only name on the llc (the agent, which is the only name required for llc) that anyone can see. Members, etc cannot be seen unless they are the one listed as the agent (place of contact).-an LLC is public and does not have the same privacy as a trust
-if the LLC is administratively dissolved, the items become illegal and fixing the LLC does not make them legal again under the NFA
You can easily have the same or similar succession plan for an llc.-a trust deals with incapacity and death for succession planning that an LLC does not
Stroke of the pen.-a trust can be changed quickly to fix problem with prohibited persons
That may be true about registering but I don't think nfa registration would be any different if an individual or llc. In fact it's possible the llc could stay in state as primary location and simply register in the other state which may mean no need for nfa transfer (I don't know about the nfa part).-it's easy to modify if you move or change states, LLC's often require to be registered in each state and additional yearly fees apply
It's the opposite actually. The primary reason to have an llc or corp is for liability protection. People can sue and get at the corps/llcs assets but not yours.An existing business/LLC may seem convenient, however... you have to remember too that using a business/LLC to purchase NFA firearms can cause your business and livelihood to be at risk if someone uses the firearms incorrectly or allows others to have possession or use them.
Thanks and much appreciated. Still learning !Just points to ponder.
Well... changing officers or organizational structure of an llc requires submitting written notice of withdrawl, which does take a little time. A trust, all it takes is a phone call to your attorney and can be done on the spot the same day, legally binding and in force immediately. "Ease" I guess is relative.Seems like it would be easier with llc. A stroke of the pen is all that's needed to add a member of the llc.
As you said.. it IS a public entity by nature... although... there are methods for concealing the officers/owners personal identity. That also comes at a cost though. You gotta pay to play if you want to have an attorney used as an agent for your LLC.I don't think that's correct. It's not public. For example you can have an attorney as the only name on the llc (the agent, which is the only name required for llc) that anyone can see. Members, etc cannot be seen unless they are the one listed as the agent (place of contact).
Agreed. Although, not as protected to challenge or, "by default". More language in your articles usually means more cost to prepare them where a trust kind of comes "standard" with those provisions. But yeah... it's doable.You can easily have the same or similar succession plan for an llc.
That part I meant that there are additional fees, filing and annual reporting costs associated with LLC registration in multiple states. Trusts do not. Nothing to do with the NFA aspect though, which of course, would have to be done too if the item was physically moved to another state... regardless of what state the LLC is registred in.That may be true about registering but I don't think nfa registration would be any different if an individual or llc. In fact it's possible the llc could stay in state as primary location and simply register in the other state which may mean no need for nfa transfer (I don't know about the nfa part).
Thats how it's "not" the opposite. What I said was that your LLC can be at risk, not your personally. If your LLC is a business and you draw your livelihood from it, suit and disolution of the LLC could happen if the item was misused. Anyone else drawing their livelihood from that LLC would also be impacted.It's the opposite actually. The primary reason to have an llc or corp is for liability protection. People can sue and get at the corps/llcs assets but not yours.
Actually no, I can add or delete members with a stroke of the pen. No need for attorneys or anything else and definitely no need for withdrawal.Well... changing officers or organizational structure of an llc requires submitting written notice of withdrawl, which does take a little time. A trust, all it takes is a phone call to your attorney and can be done on the spot the same day. "Ease" I guess is relative.
It's not a public entity. Not at all.As you said.. it IS a public entity by nature... although... there are methods for concealing the officers/owners personal identity. That also comes at a cost though. You gotta pay to play if you want to have an attorney used as an agent for your LLC.
Correct. You can get a registered agent in another state for around $30/year.That part I meant that there are additional fees, filing and annual reporting costs associated with LLC registration in multiple states. Trusts do not. Nothing to do with the NFA aspect though, which of course, would have to be done too if the item was physically moved to another state... regardless of what state the LLC is registred in.
Thats how it's "not" the opposite. What I said was that your LLC can be at risk, not your personally. If your LLC is a business and you draw your livelihood from it, suit and disolution of the LLC could happen if the item was misused. Anyone else drawing their livelihood from that LLC would also be impacted.
Same with llc. Llc does not mean it has to have lots of assets. It could have only 1 firearm Fe (just as an extreme example).Under your trust, only the assets of the trust would be at risk...
I think it may be helpful to study what those annual filings, operational expenses etc are. I think you will be very, very, surprised. I think perhaps you are thinking of a corporation?at's that only asset at risk... the firearm itself.
Just me, personally, I see the greatest disadvantage in the annual filings, fees, and operational requirements as the biggest con. Once it's in place, it MUST be maintained in perpetuity or any NFA items assigned to the LLC will become illegal if the LLC is ever dissolved or does a classification change... for any reason.
Agree! One issue I'm thinking about is what if we move out of state while waiting for the nfa item (may be highly likely for us). That poses big pains in the butt as an individual but llc perhaps it could be a non issue as long as uncle Bob or a registered agent service is there as the registered agent. Not sure how you let atf know it's no longer in state. Probably send them a notice. Don't know on that. Need to research it more but looks promising.Like I said though, just general points to ponder. Some may be more applicable or of more value.. or not... to different people.
Oregon: "You amend your articles of organization by submitting the completed Oregon Articles of Amendment/Dissolution – Limited Liability Company form to the Oregon Secretary of State Corporation Division by mail, in person or courier service or by fax."Actually no, I can add or delete members with a stroke of the pen. No need for attorneys or anything else and definitely no need for withdrawal
Umm... as you said again, and I agreed with you last time... even if your uncle Bob is the agent... THAT is public record..It's not a public entity. Not at all.
You can have anyone as the registered agent, for example your uncle Bob. Registered agent is only a place of contact where official mail is sent. That is the name that is visible as it is registered with the state under the business name.
Agreed. And annual filing with each state, which may or may not cost you anything. Again... a personal LLC for liability limitation only vs. an LLC actually taking in income will differ in the amount of filing, complexity and costs. However.... $30 per state every year, in perpetuity, is still $30 per state every year more than a trust.Correct. You can get a registered agent in another state for around $30/year.
Very true! The question begs then... what is the advantage of an LLC and annual fees over a trust for 1 firearm, right?Same with llc. Llc does not mean it has to have lots of assets. It could have only 1 firearm Fe.
I own and have operated an LLC for decades, I was CEO of a C Corp for over 30 years, helped to establish a family trust, of which I am now the succesor trustee and have 2 trusts for personal use. I am VERY familiar with the laws, filing requirements and fees of each. No suprises whatsoever.I think it may be helpful to study what those annual filings, operational expenses etc are. I think you will be very, very, surprised. I think perhaps you are thinking of a corporation?
Swtiching gears. If your LLC NFA item is used in the commission of a crime, and suit is brought against the LLC, your rental home is at risk of loss. YOUR personal assests held outside of the LLC are protected, but your LLC is liable... as I mentioned earlier.One example is let's say a person owns a rental house and they want the house under the umbrella of an llc for asset protection. They register their name with the state, form their llc, and do their taxes as they normally would, no different. It's much different than a corporation. The rental house is handled under a schedule E whether they do it as an individual or an llc. You must seperate personal expenses etc from the llc expenses etc but other than that it's very straight forward.
You could! Sure! However... the item would likely have to remain in the state and in possession of the primary agent until the tax stamp comes through, your LLC is filed and approved in your new state of residence and you file for approval to relocate your NFA to your new state.Agree! One issue I'm thinking about is what if we move out of state while waiting for the nfa item (may be highly likely for us). That poses big pains in the butt as an individual but llc perhaps it could remain in the state as long as uncle Bob or a registered agent service is there as the registered agent. Not sure how you let atf know it's no longer in state. Probably send them a notice. Don't know on that. Need to research h more but looks promising.
True, but there isn't much involved. The biggest pain really is the annual report ($100 fee) and having to file income tax every year even if there is not income to report. So basic fee's... if you do nothing... is $150/annually. (Annual report and $100 every 2 years to renew your LCC).I have been told by the OR Dept of Revenue that LLCs in Oregon have the same quarterly tax reporting responsibilities as an S Corp or a C Corp.
Report withholding, transit tax, et cetera. Even if there are no employees or payroll to report.
Just another PITA to consider dealing with.
$.02