Other State California's Mag Ban Ruled Unconstitutional

[arakboss]

All we need is RBG to retire and BOOM. Supreme court is great for the next 20 years.

Hopefully Justice Thomas has a good ticker.

 

[titsonritz]

I find it all amusing.

 

[arakboss]

Yes.

The ruling says "manufactured, imported, sold, OR bought"

"or" does not mean "and"

Some retailers are have a different opinion on this topic: Shopping

 

[Diamondback]

All we need is RBG to retire and BOOM. Supreme court is great for the next 20 years.

Not quite.
Current SCOTUS: 4-3 their favor plus two wildcards (Roberts and Kavanaugh) Problem being that Roberts discovered his inner Earl Warren on Obamcare, he's no friend of ours and Kavanaugh was the dude who PICKED him for GWB to nominate. Kavanaugh might as well be seating Howdy Doody on Roberts's knee as a Justice. And given Roberts's fetish for 6-3 Or Better in his misguided belief that it "preserves the respectability of the Court"...

RBG Vacant: 3-3, plus the wildcards. With Roberts turning Left it breaks as a 5-3 the wrong way.

Let's assume we get a 2A Firebreather like Kozinski or Benitez to replace RBG. STILL 5-4 the wrong way, unless we find whatever blackmail material the Left has on Roberts... to be safe we need to flip TWO more seats, or Gorsuch and Thomas need to break Roberts's hold on Kavanaugh.

 

[arakboss]

Not quite.
Current SCOTUS: 4-3 their favor plus two wildcards (Roberts & Kavanaugh) Problem being that Roberts discovered his inner Earl Warren on Obamcare, he's no friend of ours and Kavanaugh was the dude who PICKED him for GWB to nominate. Kavanaugh might as well be seating Howdy Doody on Roberts's knee as a Justice. And given Roberts's fetish for 6-3 Or Better in his misguided belief that it "preserves the respectability of the Court"...

RBG Vacant: 3-3, plus the wildcards. With Roberts turning Left it breaks as a 5-3 the wrong way.

Let's assume we get a 2A Firebreather like Kozinski or Benitez to replace RBG. STILL 5-4 the wrong way, unless we find whatever blackmail material the Left has on Roberts... to be safe we need to flip TWO more seats, or Gorsuch and Thomas need to break Roberts's hold on Kavanaugh.

So much for my uplifted mood

 

[GWS]

I think Kavanaugh will be on our side
An excerpt from Brownstein's article in Verdict. Emphasis mine.
"Judge Kavanaugh, however, argued that no standard of review should be applied to test the government's justification for restricting the right to keep and bear arms. If the right is infringed, the infringement can never be justified, no matter how compelling the government's justification for its actions may be. Judge Kavanaugh argued that if the government's action burdens conduct falling within the scope of the Second Amendment right and is not covered by one of the exceptions identified by history and tradition, there is nothing more to say. The law at issue is unconstitutional, period."

That does not sound like a puppet to me.

 

[arakboss]

Not quite.
Current SCOTUS: 4-3 their favor plus two wildcards (Roberts and his cock-remora Kavanaugh) Problem being that Roberts discovered his inner Earl Warren on Obamcare, he's no friend of ours and Kavanaugh was the dude who PICKED him for GWB to nominate. Kavanaugh might as well be seating Howdy Doody on Roberts's knee as a Justice. And given Roberts's fetish for 6-3 Or Better in his misguided belief that it "preserves the respectability of the Court"...

RBG Vacant: 3-3, plus the wildcards. With Roberts turning Left it breaks as a 5-3 the wrong way.

Let's assume we get a 2A Firebreather like Kozinski or Benitez to replace RBG. STILL 5-4 the wrong way, unless we find whatever blackmail material the Left has on Roberts... to be safe we need to flip TWO more seats, or Gorsuch and Thomas need to break Roberts's hold on Kavanaugh.

We will have a better idea once a firearms case is heard.

 

[Diamondback]

So much for my uplifted mood

I just report where the data and analysis lead me, bro. I'm no happier about it than you are...

I think Kavanaugh will be on our side
An excerpt from Brownstein's article in Verdict. Emphasis mine.
"Judge Kavanaugh, however, argued that no standard of review should be applied to test the government's justification for restricting the right to keep and bear arms. If the right is infringed, the infringement can never be justified, no matter how compelling the government's justification for its actions may be. Judge Kavanaugh argued that if the government's action burdens conduct falling within the scope of the Second Amendment right and is not covered by one of the exceptions identified by history and tradition, there is nothing more to say. The law at issue is unconstitutional, period."

That does not sound like a puppet to me.

Also, remember that if he was issuing that at District or Circuit there was a degree of hand-tying by precedent, especially post-Heller...

For the sake of discussion, let's re-run the numbers assuming Kavanaugh *doesn't* bear an inner David Souter.

• Current Court: 4-4 Deadlock, Roberts as tiebreaker. Unfavorable conditions.
• RBG Vacant: 3-4 our way. Would expect Roberts to join the Left, whether his inner leftism or a need to punt until full Court can decide.
• Firebreather Replacement: Can go several ways. If Roberts manages to strongarm somebody, 5-4 lose. If he's serious about "preserving the legacy of the Court" then he crosses over for a 6-3 win. However, he would probably assign writing the decision to himself so he can narrowly tailor and nerf it as much as possible.

 

[GWS]

Then you speculate on Roberts and given his refusal to take 2A cases your point is valid, but I am talking about Kavanaugh and, as I pointed out his opinion is pretty straight forward.
You are right about Roberts as a wild card. At least we have a solid 4 in Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.
Now, if only RBG would step down...

 

[nammac]

Then you speculate on Roberts and given his refusal to take 2A cases your point is valid, but I am talking about Kavanaugh and, as I pointed out his opinion is pretty straight forward.
You are right about Roberts as a wild card. At least we have a solid 4 in Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.
Now, if only RBG would step down...

Well, we hope we have a solid 4...

 

[Gbirk]

I believe it has to be in your possession

Shipping is often "FOB origin", which means the transfer of ownership happens at delivery to the shipper. That would indicate that it was "in your possession" as long as it had been delivered to the shipper by the seller. Basically once an item leaves the sellers dock, it is yours, but you would have to look at the shippers "shipping terms to be sure". The question is if you are willing to go to court to fight it if there is a question. Most people/business don't want that fight.

 

[Slobray]

Then you speculate on Roberts and given his refusal to take 2A cases your point is valid, but I am talking about Kavanaugh and, as I pointed out his opinion is pretty straight forward.
You are right about Roberts as a wild card. At least we have a solid 4 in Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.
Now, if only RBG would step down...

I think what @Diamondback was trying to say is that Kavanaugh wants to emulate Roberts in every way and he makes his rulings based on how Roberts rules and you can kind of see evidence of that in the below article (see below).

Empirical SCOTUS: Is Kavanaugh as conservative as expected? - SCOTUSblog

Kavanaugh aligned most closely with Roberts, as they both voted in the same direction in all but one of Kavanaugh's first set of decisions. After Roberts, Kavanaugh voted in the same direction as Alito in all but two instances and Breyer in all but three instances.

Kavanaugh aligned most closely with Roberts, as they both voted in the same direction in all but one of Kavanaugh's first set of decisions.

Kavanaugh voted along the same lines as Breyer more often than with any of the other liberal justices on the Court, at almost 86 percent of the time so far this term. He then voted alongside Kagan in 81 percent of the decisions in which he participated. Kavanaugh next aligned with both Ginsburg and Sotomayor just over 76 percent of the time so far this term.

Kavanaugh voted on the same side as Roberts more often than with any of the other justices, at approximately 95 percent of the time. He voted alongside Alito the next most often, at 90 percent of the time. The somewhat surprising finding is that he voted with Breyer more often than with Gorsuch or Thomas. He voted with Gorsuch in 80.95 percent of his votes, which is the same frequency of voting alignment he shared with Kagan. Kavanaugh voted equally least frequently with Thomas, Ginsburg and Sotomayor, all at just over 76 percent of the time.

I've been skeptical of Kavanaugh from the beginning:
National - No Mystery to Supreme Court Nominee Kavanaugh's Gun Views
National - No Mystery to Supreme Court Nominee Kavanaugh's Gun Views

We'll just have to see how he rules in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. City of New York to get a better idea where he stands. Well, at least where he stands on a some what narrow understanding of the "bear" part of the 2A.



Ray

 

[GWS]

Shipping is often "FOB origin", which means the transfer of ownership happens at delivery to the shipper. That would indicate that it was "in your possession" as long as it had been delivered to the shipper by the seller. Basically once an item leaves the sellers dock, it is yours, but you would have to look at the shippers "shipping terms to be sure". The question is if you are willing to go to court to fight it if there is a question. Most people/business don't want that fight.

The original e-mail I received from Gun Owners of California said mags had to be delivered by 5:00PM today to be legal. Undoubtedly, that is the safest thing, having them physically in your possession before/by the deadline. Will CA go after records of shipping to see who got their mags after 5PM? It's possible. My personal opinion of the governor is extremely low and I think he could be petty enough to order the DOJ to try something. For everything before 5 today, they (CADOJ) are SOL.

To paraphrase Gavin Noisome. They're here, whether you like it or not!

 

[Diamondback]

Well said, @Slobray --if Kav were any friend of ours, you'd expect him to tack closer to the Alito-Gorsuch-Thomas end of the spectrum rather than along the lines of Pinko Commie Turd Breyer.

Oh, what an opportunity we missed when Dubya couldn't be bothered to bump Thomas up to Chief...

 

[awshoot]

Some retailers are have a different opinion on this topic: Shopping

Undoubtedly true. The CRPA (one of the Plaintiffs) appears to think differently -- see comments: CRPA ALERT: Judge Grants Partial Stay in Magazine Judgment | CRPA: California Rifle & Pistol Association

 

[tkdguy]

Reading the CRPA alert there is a warning not to talk to law enforcement about the magazine issues.

 

[awshoot]

I understand people wanting to be conservative/safe and to have "bought AND received" their mags before the deadline, but the language of the order is clear. The operative word is "or" and that means "if one of the four options is true" things are cool.

Think about the logical insanity that would occur if that word was "and" -- a person would have to have sold AND bought AND manufactured AND imported. I highly doubt there are more than a handful of people or entities that could meet that standard -- it doesn't even makes sense because a reseller is likely to meet at most three elements (buy, sell, import but not manufacture). A person who bought from a store in CA, would only be a buyer and not an importer -- with "and" that person is excluded from the safe zone. No matter how you divide this up, "and" fails. Luckily, Benitez did not use "and".

It makes sense to read what is written, and the word that is written is "or".

 

[awshoot]

Reading the CRPA alert there is a warning not to talk to law enforcement about the magazine issues.

Yes -- look at the comments. This is explained because the police may not be aware of the state of the law.

 

[L84Cabo]

All we need is RBG to retire and BOOM. Supreme court is great for the next 20 years.

I am done being polite for someone who legislates from the bench, whose mental competency is seriously in question, and doesn't have the good sense to retire on her own when it's clearly past time.

I don't care how she goes...as long as she goes.

 

[L84Cabo]

It's fun watching the state, which is used to having everything their own way because they said so, have to actually argue a case. That takes more than talking points and being photogenic.

It's pretty comical. You can just hear the sarcasm in Judges Benitez writing when he chastises them for using Mother Jones as a source instead of credible sources police reports or FBI crime data.