California water shortage

[CoastRange57]

This is not about the weather cycles. This is about environmental regulations, and process's that prohibit the development and construction of water impoundment's and infrastructure. It can take decades of mandated environmental studies, impact statements, and other government requirements and environmental group court challenges to get a project to the engineering stage. A 20 to 30 year time span for this planning and construction is not uncommon.

The ability to construct water infrastructure is there, but virtually every project will be challenged in court by environmental interests, that will effectively prevent the development of any new dams, or potable water projects.

These groups are then forced to look at such idiotic projects such as extracting water from the Willamette at Wilsonville, treating it and then putting it into the potable water distribution system. Never mind it is the storm, farm, industrial and street surface drainage for over 110 miles of heavily populated area. Not something I want to drink even if it is "treated".

There are hundreds of drainage's that could be impounded and developed for potable water in the Western US, but doing so is going to alter some level of natural process's, and that has became politically unacceptable in today's politically correct world. Better the chubs and suckers have water, than the people.

Such thinking will only put more pressure on existing infrastructure, that is woefully undersized for today's populations, and making it even more susceptible to climate variations such as these periodic drought seasons.

 

[The Heretic]

I disagree.

While it is about the weather - to a degree - this has been a known issue for decades, and the weather has only brought it to a head a little sooner.

Without the weather/climate change, we still have the problem of population growth and less water per capita.

Plan for higher food prices, higher water prices (Portland, which gets LOTs of rain, is significantly increasing their municipal water fees to pay for increased costs) and higher energy prices. This will impact the costs of everything else.

 

[CoastRange57]

With proper impoundments and water storage infrastructure, you should be able to have 2 years storage with under 50% normal precipitation. With proper planning and building of expanded or new projects that could easily be met. But increased populations at recent rates of growth, the capacity of water infrastructure expotentially decrease yearly.

Water sources for agriculture vary, some are river flows dependent upon snow pack or storage, some is ground water wells, some is point source to a lake or pond. I worked on a project in Northern Ca where we had very low flows coming into a pond to supply irrigation water for ag fields. By a simple expansion of the pond size, we were able to hold enough water to meet our irrigation needs for that season, even with greatly reduced input flows. That project took 3 people 5 days with an excavator, cat and back hoe. Probably under 20K in hard costs. Easily replicated on much larger scales.

Our local irrigation district has an 1100 acre lake. It holds sufficient capacity to meet its needs for 2 years with no inputs. Given the fact that the local ag economy has decreased demands for its water, they will be able to divert more to residential use. This project was completed in 1974. Planning and advocacy for this project began at least 10 years earlier. Expansion of this project by raising the dam 40 feet was considered over 20 years ago, with multiple studies and impact statements done in that time. I think it unlikely this project will be completed in the next 10 to 15 years.

Local water providers are very good at raising prices by 3% to 4% every year. Covers the government salary's and benefits, real well. We all could only be so lucky to get 4% more money every year. Food prices will increase only because the middle men increase their prices to the stores. The farmers sure as hell are not getting any more for their produce, because of a water shortage. They will think twice about planting irrigated crops, but if they have contracts to the processors, they have to. Of course the processors don't have to honor their contracts if they do not want to.

Climate change certainly needs to be considered, but the ability or inability to store suitable amounts of water in light of that climate change is more significant than the actual decrease in available precipitation, snow packs or other point source origins.

 

[ATCclears]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/02/u...?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20140202&_r=0

There are some interesting pictures in the slideshow.

Peter

 

[Grunwald]

It simply boils down to this - Kalifornia is a freaking desert!

Now it can be the land of dried up a-holes.

 

[uscsoldier]

water shortage due to bottled water

 

[rocky3]

How can so many get the water issue so screwed up? In a brief nut-shell here is the problem. Water is now a free-enterprise, brought on by our crazy legislatures. The money for water and sewer is not a dedicated revenue. It is now legal to be used for anything other than water. It is now a source of revenue for all crazy things that have nothing to do with water-sewer. That is why the water-sewer rates are so high. Also the EPA is working hand in hand with civil engineering firms to create treatments that are not necessary, to create money-making schemes, lobbing is very profitable.
So if you do the numbers you will find that maintenance, new installations and reservoirs could easily be paid for by the old rate systems, with no increase in fees.
And NESTLÉ is doing nothing to help us...do not ever buy their products.

 

[PBinWA]

Just got back from a conference in Palm Springs. Lots of nice green lawns and well watered plants abound. No sign of a water shortage there.

They'll probably cut off water to all the poorest areas of the state and see if they can start some riots to justify a big resource grab from their "friendly" neighbors.

 

[The Heretic]

I do not believe there is any transportation technology short of a diversion of a river, that will give Calif. the amount of water they will need in the future.

Trucking or shipping by train certainly would not do it.

Shipping via a large ship wouldn't do it.

These are not even stop gap measures for anything but very small isolated communities.

Distillation of sea water on the scale needed is cost prohibitive, even with solar, quite possibly with nuclear (even if Calif. was to accept new nuclear plants - which is highly unlikely).

In short, the SW USA is pretty well screwed with regards to water, and the main danger to their "neighbors" is a mass exodus.

 

[JackThompson]

How can so many get the water issue so screwed up? In a brief nut-shell here is the problem. Water is now a free-enterprise, brought on by our crazy legislatures. The money for water and sewer is not a dedicated revenue. It is now legal to be used for anything other than water. It is now a source of revenue for all crazy things that have nothing to do with water-sewer. That is why the water-sewer rates are so high. Also the EPA is working hand in hand with civil engineering firms to create treatments that are not necessary, to create money-making schemes, lobbing is very profitable.
So if you do the numbers you will find that maintenance, new installations and reservoirs could easily be paid for by the old rate systems, with no increase in fees.
And NESTLÉ is doing nothing to help us...do not ever buy their products.

Rocky3 has it.

Billions of gallons of water are given to Nestle and Coke so they can sell it back to you at ridiculous rates.

Boycot them and your water problem almost solves itself

 

[Grunwald]

Rocky3 has it.

Billions of gallons of water are given to Nestle and Coke so they can sell it back to you at ridiculous rates.

Boycot them and your water problem almost solves itself

The whole bottled drinking water craze is stupid. I understand buying spring water because you want water that is not full of crap that a municipal water system has, but tap water?
Lets start selling small portable tanks of "breathing air".
It is just as absurd and I would not be shocked to see it in 20 years.

Maybe one of those big corporations will do it and leverage some name recognition. Introducing "Rocky Mountains Summer's Eve", as fresh as Colorado".

 

[Martini_Up]

desalinization plants. drink processed seawater.

 

[EZLivin]

Growing water-intensive crops (rice, cotton) in CA might not be the best thing to do either, but they do it on a massive scale.

 

[CoastRange57]

Growing water-intensive crops (rice, cotton) in CA might not be the best thing to do either, but they do it on a massive scale.

Damn right they do. Massive diversion of stream flows to flood irrigate rice fields might have something to do with the problem. The American consumer demands low prices on mass produced food products. They have traded having enough storage of water to drink and bath in for cheaper prices on the food. Now the food prices will go up, the water will be rationed and everybody will get all butt hurt over it.

 

[AMProducts]

The areas where they grow rice crops already have plenty of water, they actually have to divert water away from them if they want those fields to be dry. The major issue for the central valley is there is insufficient sewage treatment infrastructure, so they have to use fresh (drinking/farm) water to flush SF and sacramento's sewage out of the delta. This is what brings in the whole story of the delta smelt.

 

[Grunwald]

Damn right they do. Massive diversion of stream flows to flood irrigate rice fields might have something to do with the problem. The American consumer demands low prices on mass produced food products. They have traded having enough storage of water to drink and bath in for cheaper prices on the food. Now the food prices will go up, the water will be rationed and everybody will get all butt hurt over it.

The ironic thing is that American rice is not the one you want to eat anyway. It has the highest concentration of arsenic due to the soils here in the US and natural levels of arsenic being higher than traditional rice growing countries.
So buy your rice from Asia.

 

[coop44]

I was born in Yuma Az and grew up in Orange county CA, This isn't the first drought nor will it be the last. What is different is that population in southern CA has never been higher, people are still moving there! (god knows why). Residential demand has never been higher, even with conservation efforts, (in place for decades) the supply just will not meet demand. Problem is, it is a damned desert from the colorado river to the ocean. There are no natural bodies of water, and only seasonal rivers and streams. The few aquifers are nearly drained.

Mono Lake is pretty much gone.

AZ & CA alternate water usage from the colorado for agriculture (the last I heard it was on 10 year cycles). That may have changed.

Desalinization is a cool techie idea, as of yet no one wants to spend the money for large scale processing.


Truth be told, a really stupid place to put a major population center.


EDIT: correction, there is/was a natural body of water in the San Bernadino mountains, a pond about 2 acres in size fed by a natural spring, maybe it's still there. Only one I know of in the whole southern half of the state.

 

[bzltyr]

I thought they just got some rain, its a start.

 

[Burt Gummer]

We grow a lot of our own produce and our new home will expand to a large hothouse and greenhouses. No water issues here and large food storages

Give me your address there.

(In Arnold Voice)

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Give me your address there.

(In Arnold Voice)

Come quietly or there will be~~ Trouble