Caliber conversion 40 S&W to 10mm?

[rpatton]

Of course the obvious answer is to go with a firearm that is already a 10mm.

I have seen a lot of old war rifles (Arisakas and Enfields that were rechambered to either 308 or 30-06 seem to be the most common, there are others)

I've just been rolling it over in my head for a few days especially after the thread on ammunition diversity so I am finally going to just throw it out there.

How hard would it be really to convert a Beretta CX4 storm (carbine) w/complimentary PX4 (pistol) from 40 S&W to 10mm?

First I think the barrel would be the easy part and modifying the magazines the hard part but if those were do-able is there anything I am missing... 0h, perhaps upgrading recoil springs.

I am interested in doing this, perhaps even try it myself. What are the thoughts or recomendations of any gunsmiths out there? Has someone already done this with the above mentioned guns (or any other guns)?

Read More

 

[PhysicsGuy]

In reality I dont see it as being possible. The 10mm auto cartridge is rated up to approx 5,000 psi higher than .40 S&W. So you're going to be running a rather higher pressure cartridge in a chamber, and firearm that is not designed for it.

Also you're going to come across many OAL length issues with the grip and mags, since 10mm is along the same lengths as .45 acp.

If you really wanted to do some sort Beretta to 10mm, you'd be better off starting with a .45 framed gun, and somehow getting someone to turn a .45 barrel blank into 10mm auto.

But even with that, you're most likely going to end up beating the heck out of a frame and barrel with stresses it wasn't designed for.

You have to remember that 10mm auto is one of the most powerful autoloading pistol cartridges out there, its not something to take lightly.


Not to try to shoot down the dream or anything, just trying to keep you from loosing body parts, or shooting an eye out

 

[PhysicsGuy]

...and I guess even if you did use a .45 gun, you're slide is going to be setup for a different rim size.


If you wanted a firearm to run both .40 and 10mm (I know you already suggested it), you'd be better off getting something like a large frame EAA witness with both 10mm and .40 barrels, or a glock 20 with a .40 S&W conversion barrel. I figured you probably already thought of this, but its a method that works.

 

[rpatton]

In reality I dont see it as being possible. The 10mm auto cartridge is rated up to approx 5,000 psi higher than .40 S&W. So you're going to be running a rather higher pressure cartridge in a chamber, and firearm that is not designed for it.

Interesting point, I had really expected that it would be cheaper for a manufacture to use standard metalurgy throughout their product line rather than have multiple alloys to build frames receivers and barrels. I suppose your reasoning might explain why Beretta hasn't already built this combo in 10mm though.

Also you're going to come across many OAL length issues with the grip and mags, since 10mm is along the same lengths as .45 acp.

This is exactly why I had figured that the magazine would be the hard part but I saw the potential as I was looking at the Tanfoglio Elite Witness line...to use the same frame but change barrels and slides to change caliber...all the magazines have to be the same size across the calibers. The trick I percieve is to change the angle of feed to allow 10mm cartridges to fit the 40 S&W while still functioning with the action.

If you really wanted to do some sort Beretta to 10mm, you'd be better off starting with a .45 framed gun, and somehow getting someone to turn a .45 barrel blank into 10mm auto.

But even with that, you're most likely going to end up beating the heck out of a frame and barrel with stresses it wasn't designed for.

The easy way would be to have a truck load of money and just commission Beretta to build the Storm Pistol/carbine combo in 10mm... I get that

You have to remember that 10mm auto is one of the most powerful autoloading pistol cartridges out there, its not something to take lightly.

This point is exactly my point for the idea, the 10mm is very respected for its power to take down both 2 and 4 legged creatures, it seems the perfect cartrige for the rifle/carbine to pistol crossover

Not to try to shoot down the dream or anything, just trying to keep you from loosing body parts, or shooting an eye out

I have read a lot of your posts on this site and have even traded some 45LC with you about a year or so back (OH yeah, the brass showed up yesterday, thanks) and I can say that you probably know that making a dream come true requires action outside the dream.

The Beretta may not wind up being the platform but I know it is possible. It just seems that with them already having the CX4 and complimentary pistol in 40 S&W that they are already standing at the edge with their toes hanging over (notwithstanding the metalurgy issues you pointed out)

I don't mean to ignore any other posts in this thread but I have other work to get to, hope to hear more.

 

[rpatton]

My S&W 610 handles both without issuer.

Had to look it up, it's a revolver, if I am not mistaken those are stronger than semi-autos generally anyway but I'm not looking for something to shoot both calibers just want to end up at 10mm and yes, I may have to just start at 10mm rather than try a conversion it seemed an interesting possibility though.

 

[PhysicsGuy]

Well to give you an idea of the engineering differences between .40 S&W and 10mm is to look at the size difference between such firearms as the G22 and G20, or the small framed Witnesses or regular CZs vs the large frame Witnesses.

You also have to recall that the S&W .40 is a 10mm scaled down to fit in a 9mm frame size gun (such as the PX4 you're looking at), and there's no real way to fit a 10mm sized cartridge in the same frame. Unless of course all of the PX4 frames are the same size as the .45 (I dont know too much about the specifics of the beretta).

 

[rpatton]

Well to give you an idea of the engineering differences between .40 S&W and 10mm is to look at the size difference between such firearms as the G22 and G20, or the small framed Witnesses or regular CZs vs the large frame Witnesses.

You also have to recall that the S&W .40 is a 10mm scaled down to fit in a 9mm frame size gun (such as the PX4 you're looking at), and there's no real way to fit a 10mm sized cartridge in the same frame. Unless of course all of the PX4 frames are the same size as the .45 (I dont know too much about the specifics of the beretta).

I guess the 10mm is pretty much a large frame only caliber. I went out on another limb and contacted Beretta, wasn't able to find any direct contact very easily so I went through customer service and ask them to forward the request internally. I don't know how long it will take or if I will get a solid answer but maybe I will have planted a seed...who knows?

 

[g.i. joe]

What about using the Ruger m44 carbine? Sucks that its a tube mag, but would handle the pressure. Or get a Glock 20, 16" barrel and one of many available but stocks.

 

[dan10mmman]

Olympic Arms sells a 10mm AR
Cohare MP5 clone in 10mm
Mechtec makes a 10mm carbine upper for 1911s and Glocks
The 10mm is an excelent pistol/carbine cartrige IMHO

 

[rpatton]

Mechtec makes a 10mm carbine upper for 1911s and Glocks

Not as slick looking as the Beretta (IMO) CX4 but this would do what I want, the only improvement from this point would be for them to build one that could mount to a Tanfoglio Witness Elite for the 15+1 mag capacity. Definitely the right direction though.