CA - Shoppers stock up on rifles, shotguns before long-gun registry begins

[MikeE]

The ghost of Mark Twain is whispering in my ear:
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

However, since I am an idiot too, I'll bite:

For the record - I oppose any laws that limit our right to keep and bear arms. I think the California anti-gun laws are stupid and pernicious. I believe there is alot of crime in California - and elsewhere - and that gun laws have done nothing but disarm the victims while not addressing any of the causes of violence.
My post was about the ridiculous hyperbole (thanx Gunfixx) and over the top rhetoric some are using to supposedly advance the A2 cause. I say 'supposedly' because if the following statements, quoted below, were read by people who were on the fence about gun control, I believe that the vast majority of them would dismiss those arguments as crazy. That would make it harder for them to hear more intelligent reasons to keep our gun rights. So, my point is that indulging in radical, demonstrably false propaganda actually weakens the cause of A2.

I'm amazed they allow guest comments since Cali is basically Soviet Russia circa 1921 #3

Hopefully the Revolution will begin soon with the Democratik Peoples Republik of Kalifornia as the starting point. #4

Police and gangs an everyone else stuck unarmed in the crossfire, just about like Syria. #8

Brother, my point was that death purges for enemies of the state are coming soon. Stay tuned #11

 

[MikeE]

You make it difficult for me to disagree with you.
Your approach however, is not that much more civil, and balanced of those you have brought to light.
Nonetheless, to say there is no validity whatsoever to some of these sort of over the top comments is also not facing the realities of just how obvious it is that the long term (and very patient) goal is to disarm, or at the very least drastically/radically reduce firearms ownership by law abiding citizens.
And, as far as I can see it is a long term goal of The Progressive Left, (code word for Socialist/Communist) movement in the U.S.

Point taken - you are right about the civility and I stand corrected.

 

[RoneKiln]

Anyone remember that two very liberal districts in Colorado just threw out their liberal legislatures?

Most of the gun owners I know identify themselves as Democrats for reasons having nothing to do with 2A rights. Those people show up at pro 2A rallies and walk right back out cause so many people are screaming about communists, overthrowing the governments, abortion, illegal immigration, gay marriage, and just about every other conservative buzzword that has nothing to do with 2A rights.

I walked into a few Starbucks last year and heard tables full of guys openly carrying guns loudly ranting and raving about political issues having nothing to do with 2A rights, often using very offensive language, and going on about the upcoming revolution. I walked right back out after apologizing to the obviously nervous looking kids working behind the counter.

All those other social and political issues are important. They need to be discussed and dealt with. They have nothing to do with 2A rights. Trying to link them together and turn the issue into one of conservatives vs liberals drives away a LOT of support. 2A rights transcend party lines for a lot of people. If you're serious about rallying support to protect those rights, we need to stop ranting such hostilities.

Trying to compare the entire state of California to Syria by pointing at a few real bad neighborhoods doesn't hold up well to anyone with sense. ALL of Syria is a wreck. ALL of Somalia is a wreck. California still has obscene wealth and is still comparatively a pretty safe place to live when one looks at all the rest of the third world and most of human history. It's not where I want to live. Its politics horrify me. But it's not a scary place to visit. I have many friends living in the neighborhoods everyone just listed as warzones, and they're all software engineers or electronic engineers for tech companies. They make real good money. They live and walk every day through those neighborhoods, and I walk with them when I visit (work used to send me down there a lot). I've never once felt unsafe.

I still wouldn't want to live there.

 

[U201491]

Anyone remember that two very liberal districts in Colorado just threw out their liberal legislatures?

Most of the gun owners I know identify themselves as Democrats for reasons having nothing to do with 2A rights. Those people show up at pro 2A rallies and walk right back out cause so many people are screaming about communists, overthrowing the governments, abortion, illegal immigration, gay marriage, and just about every other conservative buzzword that has nothing to do with 2A rights.

I walked into a few Starbucks last year and heard tables full of guys openly carrying guns loudly ranting and raving about political issues having nothing to do with 2A rights, often using very offensive language, and going on about the upcoming revolution. I walked right back out after apologizing to the obviously nervous looking kids working behind the counter.

All those other social and political issues are important. They need to be discussed and dealt with. They have nothing to do with 2A rights. Trying to link them together and turn the issue into one of conservatives vs liberals drives away a LOT of support. 2A rights transcend party lines for a lot of people. If you're serious about rallying support to protect those rights, we need to stop ranting such hostilities.

Trying to compare the entire state of California to Syria by pointing at a few real bad neighborhoods doesn't hold up well to anyone with sense. ALL of Syria is a wreck. ALL of Somalia is a wreck. California still has obscene wealth and is still comparatively a pretty safe place to live when one looks at all the rest of the third world and most of human history. It's not where I want to live. Its politics horrify me. But it's not a scary place to visit. I have many friends living in the neighborhoods everyone just listed as warzones, and they're all software engineers or electronic engineers for tech companies. They make real good money. They live and walk every day through those neighborhoods, and I walk with them when I visit (work used to send me down there a lot). I've never once felt unsafe.

I still wouldn't want to live there.

I think also all they got was 2 more liberals in there to replace them :-/
No real solution YET.

 

[U201491]

The ghost of Mark Twain is whispering in my ear:
"Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

However, since I am an idiot too, I'll bite:

For the record - I oppose any laws that limit our right to keep and bear arms. I think the California anti-gun laws are stupid and pernicious. I believe there is alot of crime in California - and elsewhere - and that gun laws have done nothing but disarm the victims while not addressing any of the causes of violence.
My post was about the ridiculous hyperbole (thanx Gunfixx) and over the top rhetoric some are using to supposedly advance the A2 cause. I say 'supposedly' because if the following statements, quoted below, were read by people who were on the fence about gun control, I believe that the vast majority of them would dismiss those arguments as crazy. That would make it harder for them to hear more intelligent reasons to keep our gun rights. So, my point is that indulging in radical, demonstrably false propaganda actually weakens the cause of A2.

I'm amazed they allow guest comments since Cali is basically Soviet Russia circa 1921 #3

Hopefully the Revolution will begin soon with the Democratik Peoples Republik of Kalifornia as the starting point. #4

Police and gangs an everyone else stuck unarmed in the crossfire, just about like Syria. #8

Brother, my point was that death purges for enemies of the state are coming soon. Stay tuned #11

Truth hurts huh.

As for Police and gangs and everyone else stuck unarmed in the crossfire, just about like Syria. #8

With people unarmed except for police and gangs, just where the hell do you think people will be?
Having Sunday Brunch and carefree..
Get real. or did you just miss the entire point?

There is 500,000 stuck in a refugee camp in Jordan right now, and many with limbs, eyes, and body parts missing because they could not fight back and were exactly that... STUCK IN THE CROSSFIRE !
Fathers shot in the knees and made to watch their children being executed.
Oh of course I forgot, that couldn't happen today, especially here. Time for you to get your head out of the sand. It does happen today and it can happen here.

 

[U201491]

You make it difficult for me to disagree with you.
Your approach however, is not that much more civil, and balanced of those you have brought to light.
Nonetheless, to say there is no validity whatsoever to some of these sort of over the top comments is also not facing the realities of just how obvious it is that the long term (and very patient) goal is to disarm, or at the very least drastically/radically reduce firearms ownership by law abiding citizens.
And, as far as I can see it is, and has been the long term goal of The Progressive Left, (code word for Socialist/Communist) movement in the U.S.

I can disagree with him, because he can't interpret truth except for a narrow tunnel vision view.
Tyranny here will be just as evil, once unleashed as it is any other place in the world !
There's no civility in being blind to facts that destroy a nation.
And.... there can be no compassion for those that do it.
MikeE you need to step back and reevaluate your belief that being kind to these people in speech or otherwise will win you any headway. They will use that to chew you up and spit you out laughing the entire time. They understand only one thing. If you bite they will feel it.

 

[U201491]

Obama has his private army as well as the Reg military and school kids to rat on us and gun us down, just like hitler did

I think a few have a different idea how to combat that.
U.S. politicians urged: Just quit now!

 

[1stklass]

So how far from chaos in the US do you think we are? I guess 36 months ago Egypt (a very civilized country) could not have imagined that (depending on the numbers you believe) anywhere from a low estimate of 5 million to a high estimate of 33 million people would be marching in the streets in opposition of their new Muslim Brotherhood government. Possibly the largest demonstration the world has ever seen. Of course you wouldnt know it because the news kept pretty quiet about it. One wrong event or government misstep and your world could change drastically overnight. Do i think it is likely? no, but if we look at history, it probably is inevitable.

As far as better arguments, more civilized arguments:
When you have to point out to an anti gun person how a magazine works and that yes, they can be reloaded and dont have to be thrown away after 1 use...
When you have to explain that a semi auto with a wooden stock shoots just as fast as a black semi auto.....
When you explain to them that you can fire 60 rounds in under a minute with 6 10 round magazines in a semi auto and with 4 15 round magazines in the same gun, and that reloads after just a little practice only take 1 SECOND!

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT.

I have never seen a group of people (antigun nuts) with such limited knowledge on something they are opposed to. You cant argue with someone that has no clue what they are talking about.

 

[1stklass]

Here is another argument, and dont state it, ASK IT.

Ask someone who is against guns why they are so afraid of an object that develops less than 2000 ft lbs of energy (.223 round) when the 6000 lb SUV they drive at 70 mph down the freeway is developing 1 MILLION ft lbs of energy. What is more dangerous? How many more people are killed in Auto accidents every year than are shot? 10 times as many?

 

[U201491]

So how far from chaos in the US do you think we are? I guess 36 months ago Egypt (a very civilized country) could not have imagined that (depending on the numbers you believe) anywhere from a low estimate of 5 million to a high estimate of 33 million people would be marching in the streets in opposition of their new Muslim Brotherhood government. Possibly the largest demonstration the world has ever seen. Of course you wouldnt know it because the news kept pretty quiet about it. One wrong event or government misstep and your world could change drastically overnight. Do i think it is likely? no, but if we look at history, it probably is inevitable.

As far as better arguments, more civilized arguments:
When you have to point out to an anti gun person how a magazine works and that yes, they can be reloaded and dont have to be thrown away after 1 use...
When you have to explain that a semi auto with a wooden stock shoots just as fast as a black semi auto.....
When you explain to them that you can fire 60 rounds in under a minute with 6 10 round magazines in a semi auto and with 4 15 round magazines in the same gun, and that reloads after just a little practice only take 1 SECOND!

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT.

I have never seen a group of people (antigun nuts) with such limited knowledge on something they are opposed to. You cant argue with someone that has no clue what they are talking about.

I use to try convincing the blind, but after the first couple thousand, said hell with it as they dont have the brains god gave a worm.
Too many too long, now I would just prefer to give em a groin shot and throw them in the river. 50 yrs wasted on left wing feces. No more.
No damned tolerance left for stupid treasonous slimeballs.

 

[Trailboss]

I use to try convincing the blind, but after the first couple thousand, said hell with it as they dont have the brains god gave a worm.
Too many too long, now I would just prefer to give em a groin shot and throw them in the river. 50 yrs wasted on left wing feces. No more.
No damned tolerance left for stupid treasonous slimeballs.

Taku, tell us how you really feel

 

[U201491]

Taku, tell us how you really feel

Ok sure anytime

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I use to try convincing the blind, but after the first couple thousand, said hell with it as they dont have the brains god gave a worm.
Too many too long, now I would just prefer to give em a groin shot and throw them in the river. 50 yrs wasted on left wing feces. No more.
No damned tolerance left for stupid treasonous slimeballs.

I no longer waste my time on them, either. Would rather go play with one of our furry pals. Cosmic justice is coming and it's going to be awesome to observe

 

[RoneKiln]

I've had nearly a dozen people in the last year flip from "Nobody ever needs to own an assault rifle" to "Will you take me shooting?" Two have even asked me to help them pick out a handgun and go with them to apply for their CPL.

Some people are not worth trying to talk to. They react completely emotionally and shut their brains off. I'm sure everyone reading this has dealt with their share of these types on both sides of the fence.

Most are intelligent enough to learn if you don't make yourself sound the idiot and encourage them to tune out. Unfortunately those talking like idiots tend to be the loudest no matter what the issue being debated is. So it's easy for a large portion of the populace to start tuning everyone out. Stop calling people names for having different views, point out how many people are fed and protected by those "evil death machines," and a lot of people will take notice.

 

[erudne]

Please:
The goal has always been and always will be Progressive Gun Confiscation don't for a minute think that there is not a plan for mass confiscation in every Prog governor's and mayor's desk.
If a 'Liberal' asks me about guns I assume they will later turn me in as a gun owner to Obama's Stasi for a reward do not trust the slimeballs

 

[U201491]

Please:
The goal has always been and always will be Progressive Gun Confiscation don't for a minute think that there is not a plan for mass confiscation in every Prog governor's and mayor's desk.
If a 'Liberal' asks me about guns I assume they will later turn me in as a gun owner to Obama's Stasi for a reward do not trust the slimeballs

Dead on.
Some that are suddenly Victims and the very young are about all you have a chance swaying.
The rest cannot be trusted.

 

[U201491]

Dialog is indeed a great way to go, our history as a nation shows thousands of unsuccessful dialogs resulting in carnage, be it on American soil or world wide dialog works. However too much dialog is a weakness that leaders are taught early on, a many talking is not a man fighting.

The pen is indeed mightier then the sword, although often like our own Constitution a sword was needed a thousand times before that pen was used.
I am open to dialog, for now. When Oregon legislators quieted earlier this year, it showed the pen and body on Salem's steps worked.

We are indeed at a crossroads, it is going to take a small fire to turn in a blaze that is unstoppable. But it still is and dialog has merit, but that time is ending. I would predict that withing the next 20 years or less civil unrest will occur if not before.
I use this gauge because 20 years ago liberals started a more destructive move to destroy the Constitution, and they show no signs of slowing. That leave only one recourse to end the madness, a course neither wants to see but may not have an option to reverse if something is not done very soon.

That goal of the left began decades ago, but they began in earnest and both openly and sneakily in about 1968. They just get more blatent each year.

 

[cookie]

Oh Californians... does it even matter at this point? All your other gun rights have been F`d.
You've lost.

Most Kalifornians gun owners are happy that half of the anti gun bill passed. There is a level of ignorance with most of the gun owning libtards that is beyond belief.

 

[deen_ad]

With all due respect to that statement, where are you looking? Because I can name three places right off my head where there are no POLICE, NO Government in the Bay area. Doesn't make the news, even in California. Vallejo has no police and ever the emergency personal wont go there without police escort. There are so many Rapes and shootings it never even makes the Liberal Examiner news papers only 60 miles away. Tell you what guys you think this is not occurring the beginning stages? How do I know such things? Because I once lived in that are many years ago when it was nice and know family whom are trying to get out but can't sell their homes. Its getting bad and worse everyday. LOLOL The bank in Vallejo has armed guards, in an out and you can not walk in until they check you for weapon and only one person at a time can go in through a buzzer and two sets of doors. Restaurants there have 4 inch glass between you and food and drive thrus and walk in never have human contact and are always behind glass. I say then take a trip to Vallejo, and Richmond and Oakland go there unarmed too and see how scary it is. THese place were bad 15 years ago, now they are war zones.

Even one of the quick food Mexican joints in Fresno has a guard in the parking lot. And, because of the laws, I had to go unarmed in one of the most dangerous areas I've been in for years.


Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[deen_ad]

Also, there is no impact on persons visiting California with firearms.

So, I can take my AR's and Ak's with 30 rd mags into CA when we go there to visit for a few weeks?

And you'll personally pay my legal bills?


Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"