C&R Holders and 114

[gaijinsamurai]

Question in regards to Curio & Relic License holders, and how they will be effected by Ballot Measure 114:

Will those who hold such licenses still be required to take the course, obtain the permit, and so on? As I have understood it, C&R licensees don't need to go through an FFL to obtain firearms in that category.


(Apologies in advance if this question has already been asked and answered!)

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[solv3nt]

Question in regards to Curio & Relic License holders, and how they will be effected by Ballot Measure 114:

Will those who hold such licenses still be required to take the course, obtain the permit, and so on? As I have understood it, C&R licensees don't need to go through an FFL to obtain firearms in that category.


(Apologies in advance if this question has already been asked and answered!)

C&R has long been by the wayside in Oregon.

 

[gaijinsamurai]

C&R has long been by the wayside in Oregon.

Thanks. Upon further investigation, I see C&R is pretty much non-existent here.

 

[solv3nt]

Thanks. Upon further investigation, I see C&R is pretty much non-existent here.

SB941 killed C&R YEARS ago.

 

[ocarolan]

Yup, SB941 failed to mention C&R. So "expressio unius est exclusio alterius" presumably.

Final say on the C&R FFL and SB 941 in Oregon

I finally got a reply from Senator Betsy Johnson. She asked the legislative counsel (lawyers who work for the legislator determining legal aspects of laws) about the C&R. Here is their response. in summary: The license is now useless. "You have asked our office about the application of...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[solv3nt]

Yup, SB941 failed to mention C&R. So "expressio unius est exclusio alterius" presumably.

Final say on the C&R FFL and SB 941 in Oregon

I finally got a reply from Senator Betsy Johnson. She asked the legislative counsel (lawyers who work for the legislator determining legal aspects of laws) about the C&R. Here is their response. in summary: The license is now useless. "You have asked our office about the application of...

www.northwestfirearms.com

SB941 didn't "fail" at anything except for infringing on our rights.

 

[_Will_]

I've heard multiple FFLs of mine saying they'd help me out by logging out the transfer to a 03 FFL C&R holder.

SB941 is so poorly written the state doesn't even know how to address the collector portion. It's a joke

 

[Skully]

C&R is Grey area useful outside, inside oregon its a Grey area but I highly doubt them making the fist violation of sb941 a ffl collector.

 

[arakboss]

I've heard multiple FFLs of mine saying they'd help me out by logging out the transfer to a 03 FFL C&R holder.

SB941 is so poorly written the state doesn't even know how to address the collector portion. It's a joke

This could be useful. Does Oregon law distinguish between types of FFLs?

 

[_Will_]

SB941 says all transactions must go through a " gun dealer" Unless outlined in 18 923 U. S. C. And ORS 166.436& 438.

03 FFL uses the terms " collector" license vs dealer, thus wherein possible issue lies.


According to USC 18 923( federal law) Paragraph D, collectors are defined as having a "license" In essence SB941 contradicts itself in the wording of the law. By citing USC 18, 923 which includes collectors.

According to other threads I've read by another member Bolbus. Basically the author of the Bills and the main Oregon representative Porzanski saw collectors as a after thought and didn't give it consideration in SB941. Multiple attempts were made to his office and OSP to clarify and nothing has ever been written in stone. My email also went unanswered.

Which why I refer to it as a " joke" which it is. Now... Million dollar question.. If you had a 03 FFL and had a C&R firearm like a M1 Garand or Makarov pistol shipped to your house. Would OSP or the " authorities" kick your door down. I doubt it. Its a murky area because essentially you could win in court proving you had a federal FFL license and the whole thing might be dropped. Nobody really knows. I don't even think OSP knows...

From SB941 text.

"(c) "Transferor" means a person who is not a gun dealer or licensed as a manufacturer
or importer under 18 U.S.C. 923 and who intends to deliver a firearm to a transferee.
(2) Except as provided in ORS 166.436 and 166.438 and subsection (4) of this section, a
transferor may not transfer a firearm to a transferee unless the transfer is completed
through a gun dealer as described in subsection (3) of this section.
(3)(a) A transferor may transfer a firearm to a transferee only "

Links for more reading

SB 941 and the C&R in Oregon

bolus, are you not considered a FFL 3 or something like that. To me that would be a FFL selling to another FFL. Now make a fool out of me .

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[raftman]

C&R is Grey area useful outside, inside oregon its a Grey area but I highly doubt them making the fist violation of sb941 a ffl collector.

I am very curious as to the inside vs outside Oregon distinction. It does appear the general consensus is that a C&R license is useless inside of OR… but would a C&R holder from OR be allowed to go to some collector's show in ID or NV and pick up an eligible firearm? I've heard this notion shot down with the rebuttal "out of state sales must be legal according to the buyer's home state" (suggesting you're subject to 941 even outside of OR)… but that principle is clearly not universally applied. For example as of today it would be legal for an OR resident to buy a rifle or shotgun from a gun store in ID, but when they do so, they use the federal (NICS) BGC system rather than going through the OSP, right? Either this is a violation of "must be legal in your home state" or this principle doesn't always apply in every situation.

 

[arakboss]

I am very curious as to the inside vs outside Oregon distinction. It does appear the general consensus is that a C&R license is useless inside of OR… but would a C&R holder from OR be allowed to go to some collector's show in ID or NV and pick up an eligible firearm? I've heard this notion shot down with the rebuttal "out of state sales must be legal according to the buyer's home state" (suggesting you're subject to 941 even outside of OR)… but that principle is clearly not universally applied. For example as of today it would be legal for an OR resident to buy a rifle or shotgun from a gun store in ID, but when they do so, they use the federal (NICS) BGC system rather than going through the OSP, right? Either this is a violation of "must be legal in your home state" or this principle doesn't always apply in every situation.

I would think it would depend on whether the seller is hip on Oregon State law. I am guessing many won't be or won't care. Are Oregon authorities going to be chasing down sellers in other states or reporting them to the ATF? Very doubtful.

 

[solv3nt]

I am very curious as to the inside vs outside Oregon distinction. It does appear the general consensus is that a C&R license is useless inside of OR… but would a C&R holder from OR be allowed to go to some collector's show in ID or NV and pick up an eligible firearm? I've heard this notion shot down with the rebuttal "out of state sales must be legal according to the buyer's home state" (suggesting you're subject to 941 even outside of OR)… but that principle is clearly not universally applied. For example as of today it would be legal for an OR resident to buy a rifle or shotgun from a gun store in ID, but when they do so, they use the federal (NICS) BGC system rather than going through the OSP, right? Either this is a violation of "must be legal in your home state" or this principle doesn't always apply in every situation.

No.

 

[Skully]

SB941 says all transactions must go through a " gun dealer" Unless outlined in 18 923 U. S. C. And ORS 166.436& 438.

03 FFL uses the terms " collector" license vs dealer, thus wherein possible issue lies.


According to USC 18 923( federal law) Paragraph D, collectors are defined as having a "license" In essence SB941 contradicts itself in the wording of the law. By citing USC 18, 923 which includes collectors.

According to other threads I've read by another member Bolbus. Basically the author of the Bills and the main Oregon representative Porzanski saw collectors as a after thought and didn't give it consideration in SB941. Multiple attempts were made to his office and OSP to clarify and nothing has ever been written in stone. My email also went unanswered.

Which why I refer to it as a " joke" which it is. Now... Million dollar question.. If you had a 03 FFL and had a C&R firearm like a M1 Garand or Makarov pistol shipped to your house. Would OSP or the " authorities" kick your door down. I doubt it. Its a murky area because essentially you could win in court proving you had a federal FFL license and the whole thing might be dropped. Nobody really knows. I don't even think OSP knows...

From SB941 text.

"(c) "Transferor" means a person who is not a gun dealer or licensed as a manufacturer
or importer under 18 U.S.C. 923 and who intends to deliver a firearm to a transferee.
(2) Except as provided in ORS 166.436 and 166.438 and subsection (4) of this section, a
transferor may not transfer a firearm to a transferee unless the transfer is completed
through a gun dealer as described in subsection (3) of this section.
(3)(a) A transferor may transfer a firearm to a transferee only "

Links for more reading

SB 941 and the C&R in Oregon

bolus, are you not considered a FFL 3 or something like that. To me that would be a FFL selling to another FFL. Now make a fool out of me .

www.northwestfirearms.com

To me that says C&R fine as federal is listed and they are listing options, not all 3 have to have the same thing, interesting.

 

[Skully]

Tho that's current not 114

 

[_Will_]

To me that says C&R fine as federal is listed and they are listing options, not all 3 have to have the same thing, interesting.

Thats my interpretation of SB941 referencing 18 USC 923. It appears 03 FFLs are excluded from the term transferee under SB941. Which technically means C&R licenses are still valid.

I think there's been a huge misunderstanding here. CMP and other vendors won't ship to 03 FFL holders in Oregon anymore

@bolus

 

[Skully]

Thats my interpretation of SB941 referencing 18 USC 923. It appears 03 FFLs are excluded from the term under SB941. Which technically means C&R licenses are still valid.

I think there's been a huge misunderstanding here. CMP and other vendors won't ship to 03 FFL holders in Oregon anymore

@bolus

Cmp dosent do C&R on 1911s anymore period. Lots still ship C&R here trust me lol. Just not everyone saidly.